Re: Twin Paradox Question

Sue... wrote:
> Russell wrote:
> > Sue... wrote:
> > > Russell wrote:
> > > > Sue... wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > > So... what do the Jovian moons appear to both observers
> > > > > while all this hair is growing and greying?
> > > >
> > > > On the return trip, the youthful twin sees the moon zooming
> > > > at high speed around Jupiter. It makes up all of the orbits
> > > > that failed to be seen on the outbound trip. The total counts
> > > > come out the same at the moment the twin gets home.
> > >
> > > So if we use Jupiter's moons to measure his reading speed
> > > he reads fast departing but slow returning.
> >
> > If we use the *received* frequency of the moon's orbit, that is
> > correct. Note, in our usual time coordinates this frequency is
> > Doppler shifted, so just to be clear, let us say explicitly that
> > we make *no* compensation for Doppler.
> >
> > We can do
> > > the same for rate of hair growth.
> >
> > Yes indeed.
> >
> > > You just defeated your own argument.
> >
> > How so? Did you do the calculation?
> Yeah the planet I was leaving was celebrating one birthday
> for every two on the planet I was approaching. The
> situation reversed on my return trip so everybody must have
> had the number of birthdays.

Whoa, stick to your stupid units. This silly paragraph has
*nothing* to do with our previous exchange. Furthermore I
don't know what planet you are talking about "approaching",
but if you're approaching it then it's not in your frame, and so
you need to explain what in the world it has to do with how
many birthdays *you* celebrate. (Nothing, AFAICS.)

Look, I'm giving you some valuable time and I'd appreciate your
taking me a bit more seriously than your sloppy paragraph would
indicate you are doing. Frankly it's not worthy of you.

If you want to change the problem so as to correct for Doppler
(as you seem to be doing) of course that is allowed, but you
have to do it in a manner that is consistent with SR, otherwise
you are not making a critique of SR. In particular you have to
include the relativity of simultaneity that is an inescapable
part of SR. You haven't done this.

>
> > SR makes a *quantitative*
> > prediction
> Where ?
> http://www.bartleby.com/173/

Give me a break. I'm supposed to look through that for Einstein's
own calculation? *Some* cranks here seem to be of the opinion
that if it's not written by Einstein (indeed, if Einstein didn't write
it
in some specific popularization of the crank's choice) it's not
relativity.
Tell me that ain't so of you, otherwise I'll think it best to take my
leave forthwith.

>
> > and I didn't see any numbers from you. I think you are
> > neglecting a very important detail: his outbound trip is very short
> > in terms of received-moon-frequency-based time. That is, in your
> > weird units, the time interval over which his hair grows fast and his
> > pages turn quickly is *very* short compared to the time interval
> > over which hair-growth and page-turn rates are slow. The two do
> > not offset each other at all, and the overall effect is one of
> > *slowness* in your weird units. As I said, he reads less than
> > one chapter and he never has to visit the barber, unlike his
> > brother (who btw knows it would be an abomination to speed-read
> > Tolstoy).
> >
> > If you don't want to do the calculation,
>
> I did the calculation.

Not one Lorentz transformation in evidence. You need to
do better.

>
> Now show me Einstein's calculation.

The FAQ has what you need.

>
> Sue...
>
>
> > please *do* read the FAQ
> > on the Doppler explanation of the twin paradox. You are smart
> > enough to infer from that page the result that SR would give for
> > such a calculation, as transformed to your units.

.

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