Re: Why is the Speed Of Light Constant?


"SCW" <doune60@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Hexenmeister wrote:

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Hexenmeister wrote:

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Hexenmeister wrote:

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bsr3997@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Dear Chris:

"Chris" <nimbo@(no-spam)ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message
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There is no why, it is an experimental result. That
is that.

Actually, c is a constant *by definition*. The meter is
defined
by c and time...

David A. Smith

Nice dodge ;) That doesn't explain why it was constant before
the
definition was changed to the current one.

Bruce richmond

Fact is, c seems to be constant for the same reason that Plank's
constant is constant (!)
It just fits - more engineering than science.

SCW
Mathematicians call that "circularity", deriving what is assumed
in the first instance.
It is because it say it is, therefore it is.
Such argument is pointless.
Androcles.

Agreed.

SCW
Interestingly, the postulate Einstein used
"light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c
which is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body "
together with his own definition of time:
"we establish by definition that the ``time'' required by light to
travel
from A to B equals the ``time'' it requires to travel from B to A."
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

has since become
"Einstein's theory of special relativity results from two
statements --
the
two basic postulates of special relativity: The speed of light is the
same
for all observers, no matter what their relative speeds."
Ref: http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/relativity.html

"The speed of light is the same for all observers in uniform motion"
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node133.html

"the speed of light in free space has the same value C in all inertial
systems."
http://hepth.hanyang.ac.kr/~kst/lect/relativity/x146.htm

"The speed of light in vacuum has the same value c in all inertial
frames
of
reference."

http://nobelprize.org/physics/educational/relativity/postulates-1.html

"The relative rate of motion between any observer and any ray of light
is
always the same, 300,000 km/sec (186,000 mi/sec). "
http://www.egglescliffe.org.uk/physics/relativity/post1.html

"The speed of light through a vacuum (300,000,000 m/s or 186,000
mi/sec)
is
constant as observed by any observer, moving or stationary. "

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/relativity/u7l1a.html


That is the perfect example of circularity.
Einstein "derives" what everyone thought was a postulate, from which
they
are able to "prove" what they assumed, and none can quote the
postulate.
Androcles.

Androcles, I'm shocked! What an impressive post.

What is your opinion? Do you think that c is constant?

Of course not. Although Einstein gave an accurate and precise example of
his first postulate, he then went on to claim it was only "an
approximation
to
to first order for small quantities".
What he said was:
"Take, for example, the reciprocal electrodynamic action of a magnet
and a
conductor. The observable phenomenon here depends only on the relative
motion of the conductor and the magnet..."
so he knew as everyone else did at the time what was meant by "relative
motion".
He then went on to say

"Examples of this sort, together with .. yada yada yada ... We will raise
this conjecture (the purport of which will hereafter be called the
``Principle of Relativity'') to the status of a postulate.

So the subject is the example, the predicate is the PoR, but first he
added
some
caveats,
"They suggest rather that, as has already been shown to the first order
of
small quantities, the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be
valid
for all frames of reference for which the equations of mechanics hold
good."

Now people think the caveats he suggested are the PoR.
They simply cannot read.

But anyway, Sagnac proves light curves, therefore it cannot be constant.
Mickey's bottle moves in a circle from Mickey's left hand to his right
and back again in Mickey's frame of reference, shown in this
demonstration
of
the PoR in action:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Wilson/SpinWilson.htm

and by this 8 second movie designed for the coriolis effect but which
also
demonstrates Sagnac.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/crls.rxml

You know my view - we can only know the velocity of light from the last
reflected surface.

I think the folks at NASA-JPL know what it is rather well.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Synchronize/Synchronize.htm

Androcles.


What can I say? Polite, erudite, reasonable even. I'm lost for words!

I'm polite to those that have respect for logic, and impolite to those that
do not. From experience I have found it an effective technique against
most trolls.
They focus on the words I use rather than the content of the message.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have
to back up his acts with his life." -- Robert A. Heinlein

"Never insult anyone by accident. " -- Robert A. Heinlein

"Of all the strange "crimes" that human beings have legislated of nothing,
"blasphemy" is the most amazing - with "obscenity" and "indecent exposure"
fighting it out for the second and third place." -- Robert A. Heinlein


Have you seen this post?

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.sci.physics.new-theories/msg/29ffe022ef8f14d1


I had not, but it seems to be asking a question I have oft asked myself,
"What IS matter?"
Newton was puzzled over action at a distance, but the action at a distance
is
between two masses which he axiomatically accepted the existence of. It
seems
to me that may be putting the cart before the horse, we should accept the
existence
of action at a distance and puzzle over matter.
They may well be the obverse and reverse of the same coin.
Perhaps then we'd have a theory of everything.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm
Androcles.






SCW



.

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