Re: Time for a photon.

Dear Phil:

"Phil" <toob-headman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:442F932B.2030207@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
googlegroupie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
....
An excellent question. At least some physicists think
that because the "time dilation factor," or "time-rate"
(an object moving at high speed *undergoes* time
dilation, which *results* in a slower time-rate) of an object
WITH mass would slow to zero if we could
accelerate it to the speed of light, that the time-rate
of an object WITHOUT mass must also be zero.

Why would they think this? Photons respond to objects through/by
which they pass. They are "aware" of change.

I know of no theory that ACTUALLY predicts this,
but it seems to be a commonly held ASSumption
that, of course, this is one of relativity's predictions.

Relativity says nothing about time rate for a photon, only time
rate for "frames" inhabited by massive particles.

This caused great confusion in the study of neutrinos, because
it turns out that by the time the
sun's neutrinos reach the Earth, they have "had
time" to transform, x number of times, into any of
the three types of neutrinos, which caused the
measurements of the sun's neutrinos to be 1/3 of
the expected value (the experiments looked only
for the type known to be produced by the sun).
This fact, plus the assumption above, caused
many physicists to conclude that neutrinos have
mass since "only an object with mass, which
allows it to travel at less than c, can have a
non-zero time-rate."

The neutrino's mass derives from other requirements.

However, if it turns out that massless particles like neutrinos
and
photons do NOT have a time-rate of zero, then the
ability of the sun's neutrinos to shift among the 3
types of neutrinos does NOT imply that neutrinos
have mass (and given that neutrinos from the 1983
(?) supernova beat the photons here to Earth by
over a day, it is hard to believe that neutrinos could travel
at even slightly less than c).

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1G1:4757216&ctrlInfo=Round19%3AMode19a%3ADocG%3AResult&ao=

The same instant of the supernova process that is recorded as
peak intensity occurs at a different time than the production of
neutrinos.

For me, the fact that photons can be "short-circuited" in a
waveguide at some points
in time, but not others (basically when the EM field
is passing through a zero, we want the photons to
reflect off the top or bottom of the waveguide, to minimize the
losses), tells me that their state
varies, like a neutrino, meaning that both photons
and neutrinos have non-zero time-rates.

An individual photon is moving at c, or c_medium. That leaves
plenty of room for us turtles to see the hare "changing state".

However, I suspect that a waveguide that works
for some frequency out in space will also work deep
in a gravitational field, so my guess is that the
time-rate of photons and neutrinos slows in a deep
gravitational field.

*If* the photon has a time rate. I don't think any quantum
particle cares about either time or space.

David A. Smith


.

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