Re: About absolute reference frame......


Tom Roberts wrote:
Mike wrote:
Tom Roberts wrote:
F = m a - m w x (w x r) - 2 m w x v
(F, v, and a are 3-vectors; w is the pseudo-3-vector rotation;
m is the mass of the object)
Here w is a frame-dependent violation. Now this example is obviously
rotating frames in Newtonian mechanics, but the point is that the
appearance of any vector describing the _frame_ is not allowed.

This does not constitute a violation of Newton's
law.

Sure it does! Newton's second law is F=ma, and in a rotating frame that
simply does not hold -- one must _invent_ fictitious "forces" (called
"centrifugal force" and "Coriolis force") in order to "save" the law.

These forces are not ficticious at all. This name is a historical
misnomer. Are you trying to deny the real existence of centrifugla
forces that make centrifuges work and coriolis forces who are
responsible for the rotation of the water when it goes down the drain?

What are you talking about here? Your physics (SR/GR) transforms away
REAL forces and this is not good, not really good science.

Those fictitious "forces" are special, are coordinate dependent (i.e.
rotation dependent), and cannot possibly be real (because they are
coordinate dependent).

Your argument is a plain non sequitur. As I said before, the absurdity
of SR/GR is based on both a misconception of physics and a violation of
the rules of logic.

You have done both. Just because something is coordinate dependent it
does not mean it is not "real". The premise cannot guarantee the truth
of your conclusion. At any rate, as I said you are confused because the
term "REAL" does not carry the semantics you think. Einstein also did
not understand that and end up with the absurd theory.


And also: I was not discussing Newton's laws, this was an _example_ I
used while discussing the PoR.

You got nothing else to discuss unfortunatelly. The only laws of motion
that are available are Newton's laws and nothing else.



Still, the sum of all forces acting on a body is equal to ma.

Calling the last two terms in my equation above "forces" does not make
them so. <shrug>

It seems that in order for you to support you false argument you will
go out of your way calling forces that everyone feels every day in a
car, in an amusement park, riding a bicycle, unreal. This is mind
boggling to me.




Since one needs to add those fincticious forces in non-inertial FoR,
some naive philosophers thought the law was violated. You can easily
correct that as D'Alembert did by eliminating the term "impressed" and
define: Sum(F) = dp/dt

That does not solve the problem.

This approach can solve the problem, but one needs differential geometry
and a _covariant_ derivative (remember that p is a 3-vector).

When one is totally confused nothing he does will solve any problem but
only make things worse, which you do it well.

Einstein should have understood first what philosopher of science meant
by the term "real" before he started on his road to absurdity. Like
every other crank, he thought he understood everything. But "real" in
philosophy of physics does not mean whay he thought and you think.

Mike




Mike






Tom Roberts tjroberts@xxxxxxxxxx

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