Re: PHOTON MASS -- A FACT. MASSLESS PARTICLES -- NOT FACT.


qxs@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I'm afraid most of this conversation is currently over my head.. I will
take a students approach (cause I am one..)...

Textbook: Optics, 3rd edition. HECHT, 1998
Page: 55, section 3.3.4 Radiation Pressure and Momentum

I will avoid copying everything, partly because I don't know what
all the symbols stand for and give you the end result:

"p = E / c = H / lambda"

"this all fits rather nicely with special relativity, which relates
mass m, energy, and momentum of a particle by
E = [(cp)^2 + (mc^2)^2]^1/2

For a photon m = 0 and E = cp"

"These quantum-mechanical ideas have been confirmed experimentally
utilizing the Compton Effect, which detects the energy and momentum
transferred to an electron upon interaction with an individual X-ray
photon"
---

I'm not in a position to question this material, but what I've read
seems clear enough.. in your argument you are focusing on the mass
being required.. it seems clear that the mass is not required to
fulfill special relativity... as indicated in the above equation ?

E=cp where p=h/v ?

VERGON
Einstein gives the mass of radiation (the photon) as m = E/c^2.

The energy of the photon is given as E = pc = h nu.

Then there is the often misinterpretation of the energy-momentum 4
vector equation.

This equation is nothing more or less than the combination of
Einstein's equations for the energy and momentum of moving
*bodies* -- "bodies" -- as in ponderous mass.

One interpretation of the equation, E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2 is as
follows:

"If we set the m in the right hand first term to zero, then we get E =
pc
which we know is true. This shows that the mass of the photon is zero."

WRONG.
The first term is the square of mc^2. In case one forgets, mc^2 is REST
energy -- and the m is REST mass.

Do we agree that the REST mass of the photon is zero? Of course.
A photon brought to rest (by absorption) is no longer a photon -- so
its REST mass is zero.

The second RH term is pc, the energy of a photon IN FLIGHT. The p is
momentum -- which we know the photon in flight has. So we see the 4
vector equation is not suitable for the photon as it covers two
separate conditions of the photon, at rest and in flight.

Every equation for momentum contains MASS and motion. Therefore
E = pc states that the photon in flight has mass. p = mc,
and pc = mc c = mc^2 = E. To say that a photon has zero rest mass is
to say it is at rest (absorbed) and therefore has no motion. Thus pc
doesn't apply.

When faced with that fact, the poor souls who misinterpreted the
equation try to maintain their position by declaring a new physics
whereby there exists momentum with no mass.

The problem is, they cannot substantiate that.


The overall result is that there is no such thing as a mass-less
particle -- of any kind.

The objective universe consists only of matter (mass), the space
between matter - and the motion of matter in that space.
All else are concepts in the mind of man.

If matter (mass) is removed, there is left only empty space.

.