Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity

Sue... wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Sue... wrote:
Only the drivers of debris blocking a busy intersection
will disagree who was and was not in the intersection
simultaneously.

With that out the way... imagine diametrically opposed
particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees:

http://web.mit.edu/8.02t/www/802TEAL3D/visualizations/electrostatics/thumbnails/ringfieldThumb.jpg

Will an observer on the ring's axis see the 'jumps' as simultaneous?

I have to ask Him !
I do not think that an example like that would pour
much clear water regarding the issue.

Well it can't muddy the water too badly because it is
based directly on the electrodynamic application for which
the Lorentz contraction is used.

So you seem to be telling us you wouldn't know the difference
in a wheel that runs true and one that wobbles side to side.

No, I just consider the example too complicated to help us
in getting a better understanding.As such, right now, I am not
interested in discussing it.


One of the basic misunderstandings in interpreting the special
relativity theory concerns the issue of time.
It is considered that we can measure time through the
relation l=c t (as through other relations containing
the time variable)

You can't measure time.

This is new for me !!!!! And maybe for you too!
(You should be auto-critical at this point! )
I would remind you that, time is one of the very few basic
physical quantities.

You can simulate its passage
with a reference process.

Einstein's relativity uses the abstraction of time to resolve
an apparent conflict with Maxwell's equations and the
principle of invariance.

This is true as long as the basic assumption of isotropy
of space holds true.

That is the principle of invariance. Do you have doubts ?

In the resting reference frame (i.e. the observer's frame) we got
it certainly true. But, when we are thinking of the
moving frame, we find that the required isotropy condition
DOES NOT HOLD ANY MORE TRUE .

Light is never at rest. So it has no 'resting frame'.

I do not care about light . It is not that important.
All that matters here is, that no action/ force can be transmitted
instantly.


Then we can not interpret any more l'=c t' as
expressing the TIME in the moving frame!
And then.....t'1< >t'2 DOES NOT express the
un-simultaneity of the considered events !
Of course, arises the question : What are they then?
.......
So , this way goes the avalanche !

When a train whistle is moving toward you it is high
in pitch. When moving away it is low in pitch.

Should we loose sleep over our inability to
state the exact pitch the whistle was designed for
or study equations that resolve the issue:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/dopp.html

I do not get it! The frequency shift does not count
in any way in regard of what I was saying.
You clearly missed my point!



Sue...




LL

LL

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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity
    ... particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees: ... Einstein's relativity uses the abstraction of time to resolve ... expressing the TIME in the moving frame! ... When moving away it is low in pitch. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity
    ... particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees: ... Einstein's relativity uses the abstraction of time to resolve ... expressing the TIME in the moving frame! ... When moving away it is low in pitch. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity
    ... particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees: ... Einstein's relativity uses the abstraction of time to resolve ... expressing the TIME in the moving frame! ... When moving away it is low in pitch. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity
    ... particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees: ... Einstein's relativity uses the abstraction of time to resolve ... expressing the TIME in the moving frame! ... When moving away it is low in pitch. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Understanding SR - simultaneity
    ... particles on this ring which jump CCW about 10 degrees: ... relativity theory concerns the issue of time. ... we find that the required isotropy condition ... expressing the TIME in the moving frame! ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
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