Re: Why don't protons attract due to gluons and only with neutrons?


guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
PD wrote:
guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
1. Why aren't protons attracted to each other due to gluons?

They are.
They also repel each other electrostatically.
In balance, two protons will not be held together sufficiently without
additional gluon-contributors such as neutrons.


2. Why are protons ONLY attracted to neutrons due to gluons?

They aren't. They attract neutrons AND protons due to gluons.


3. Are neutrons attracted to other neutrons, if so why?

Yes, they are. However, neutrons can also decay into a proton, an
electron, and a neutrino, if that is energetically favorable. A proton
and a neutron happen to be a more energetically favorable bound state
than a two-neutron bound state.

You may want to look up "valley of stability".
On a plot of A vs Z, you'll see that too much Z for the same A is
unstable -- this is explained above by electrostatic proton-proton
repulsion.
So your real question is, why are too many neutrons also bad? Why is
too much A for the same Z also unstable?

PD

What's an A and a Z?

A = atomic mass = number of protons + neutrons
Z = atomic number = number of protons
A-Z = number of neutrons

Isn't an atomic mass = the mass of p + n instead of number of p & n
....thus A-Z would not = number of neutrons?

That depends on the units. A common unit of mass is the "amu" (atomic
mass unit), for which the mass of the proton and the mass of the
neutron are both approximately 1 amu. Look at a periodic table, where
atomic masses are listed in amu.



Notice the chart of the valley of stability will likely be a plot of A
vs Z or (A-Z) vs Z.


Ok but it doesn't give the LOGIC of why it gives best stabilty?

Right, and for that you'll need to look up a *description* of the
valley of instability and not just the table itself. I gave you the
reason why too much Z leads to instability -- electrostatic (Coulomb)
repulsion. Now if you do some homework and find where that Coulomb
repulsion is discussed, you'll likely find the explanation for why too
much A-Z also leads to instability....


google search: Web Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "valley of instability"
neutrons.

not a popular term?

Typo, sorry. "valley of stability".


Ok thanks,

They don't seem to gvie any specific answer, just that it becomes
unstable leading to the drip line where to many neutrons would drip
out...?

You may have to follow some of the references in those links to get a
fuller answer.


Perhaps also a reason why atoms(elements) are limited in size, the
larger the nucleus the more unstable the atom and more likely to split
(uranium, plutonium, nuclear fission).


Yes, indeed.

Ok thanks, but even after all this information I believe the atom model
in terms of the nucleus is still unchanged?

And therefore all neutrons are TOGETHER at the core and all protons are
at the outside....

No. Protons and neutrons are mixed in the nucleus, with *electrons*
about 10,000 times further away on the outside of the atom.


That's not the nuclear model I know of? Is there a newer one?

What I described was an atom.


(The model I know of has the protons (neighborhood) circulating around
the neutron core?)

I know of no model that describes the nucleus this way. Where did you
read it?


therefore I think that due to the proximity
rule...all neutrons should be gluon interacting with themselves and all
protons should be gluon interaction with themselves despite their
coulomb repulsion since they are still closer to they're own type then
the other type and that the gluon force is strongest at shorter
distances between neuclons, correct???

Actually, the nuclear binding force is not monotonic. It doesn't get
uniformly stronger at shorter distances, nor does it get uniformly
stronger at larger distances. It gets weaker at both short and long
distances (for different reasons), peaking at about a fermi or so.


That's very strange...I've never heard of any other type of force that
can get weaker at a closer distance?

Look up QCD and "asymptotic freedom".


PD

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Why dont protons attract due to gluons and only with neutrons?
    ... Why are protons ONLY attracted to neutrons due to gluons? ... electron, and a neutrino, if that is energetically favorable. ... A common unit of mass is the "amu" (atomic ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Why dont protons attract due to gluons and only with neutrons?
    ... Why are protons ONLY attracted to neutrons due to gluons? ... electron, and a neutrino, if that is energetically favorable. ... should give them at the very least a larger distance from each other ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Why dont protons attract due to gluons and only with neutrons?
    ... Why are protons ONLY attracted to neutrons due to gluons? ... electron, and a neutrino, if that is energetically favorable. ... uniformly stronger at shorter distances, ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Photons orr special relativity
    ... composite of neutrons which are composed within the proton structure, ... that nuclei of specific numbers of protons and neutrons ... Deviation from spherical symmetry ... Relative proportions of naturally occurring stable isotopes can be ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Aether is the empty space in which the Universe sits
    ... > about the internal structure of the protons and neutrons? ... octahedral configuration and but they do not blend into the aether and ... The atoms fill space and the nucleus occupies the ... > If empty space is filled with neutrons as you say, ...
    (sci.physics)
Quantcast