Re: Is motion absolute?


PD wrote:
tomgee wrote:
PD wrote:
udegenbaev@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
If a spaceship is flying from the Earth at very high speed, then by
relativity theory time in the spaceship goes slower. But on the other
hand one can say that the spaceship stays still and the Earth is flying
in the opposite direction at the same speed. So time on the Earth
should also go slower. Where is the flaw?
Does it mean that motion is absolute?

No. And the time moving slower is NOT due to the speed of the
spaceship. This is a fundamental misconception.

PD, do you really expect others to believe your unsupported
opinions even though your posts are dotted with lies and
cheating tactics? Not any of your NOTs above are correct.

Most people do not believe "the time moving slower" is due
to "the speed of the spaceship", as you claim. Therefore, it
is not a misconception on their part, only on your part. And
even if it was a misconception on their part, it would not be
a "fundamental" one, as you claim.

Geez, TomGee, do you never tire of spouting about things about which
you have no experience or understanding?
I've taught special relativity to hundreds of students.

We have already discussed how unfortunate that
is for the students.

I think I have
some contact with what the common misconceptions are.

You mean those by students? How can they have those
misconceptions unless they got them from you? Besides,
this ain't your class and you're not our teacher, and you
did not id who you referred to, so you were trying to get
away with sounding more knowledgeable than you really
are, as if you are privy to info about what are physicists'
common misconceptions.

All it takes is a
little counting.

That's what you think, but any sociologist will tell you it
takes a lot more than that to get acceptable error margins
from any survey or study.

As the OP stated, which is quite different than your interpret-
ation of what he said, compared to the earth, a ship moving
away from the earth means the ship is moving at a speed
faster than that of the earth,

How do you know that? All you know is that there is some relative
speed. You cannot determine from a relative speed which is moving
faster and which is moving slower.

For a ship to "move away" from the earth requires that it
achieve gravitational escape velocity, and to do that, it
must move faster than the earth. I've told you all that
before, why can't you learn anything?

A man walks on a moving train, and
the relative speed between the man and the train is 3 mph. Now which is
moving faster, TomGee, the man or the train? Please provide the answer
and the justification.

Distraction attempt noted.

and an observer on earth will see
it's time rate as being slower than his. In such a case, it can
be said that the reason the observer on earth sees the time
pass slower for the ship is because the speed of the ship is
faster than that of the speed of the earth.

Time dilation and length contraction are NOT due to the speed of the
object.

Not to an object's absolute speed, no, but they are due to the
comparisons of relative motion between two or more objects.

Precisely. And this is the point the OP is wrestling with.

If so, s/he is wrestling with a fairytale, since time dilation
(TD) and length contraction (LC) are only effects and not
reality. But to me the OP is asking about more than just
that, e.g., abs. motion.

The Earth
has the same relative speed with respect to the spaceship that the
spaceship has with respect to the Earth.

Of course, since neither one is stationary and you are
observing their speeds only wrt each other.

So why should there be a
difference between how time passes on Earth and how time passes on the
ship?

Because time does not pass dependent upon relative
motion, but on abs. motion. The property of variable
time rates accrues to discrete objects or systems and
their time rates vary according to their abs. speeds.

I thought you would have learned all that from my model by now.

You're not interested in getting anyone to accept your model, remember?

I did not say you should have accepted my model by now,
only that you should have learned something from it by now.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Is motion absolute?
    ... So time on the Earth ... Geez, TomGee, do you never tire of spouting about things about which ... I've taught special relativity to hundreds of students. ... observing their speeds only wrt each other. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Is motion absolute?
    ... relativity theory time in the spaceship goes slower. ... So time on the Earth ... I've taught special relativity to hundreds of students. ... observing their speeds only wrt each other. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Is motion absolute?
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    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Time is the paper on which the pen of the aether writes.
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  • Re: Is motion absolute?
    ... relativity theory time in the spaceship goes slower. ... So time on the Earth ... I've taught special relativity to hundreds of students. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)