Re: SR false?

Paul B. Andersen schrieb:

Dirk Van de moortel wrote:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:k2vtt3-it1.ln1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In sci.physics.relativity, Rudolf Drabek
<newsrudy@xxxxxx>
wrote
on 16 Sep 2006 11:43:17 -0700
<1158432197.799439.143690@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
http://www.helmut-hille.de/uni-linz.html

Abstract - An experiment is described showing that a 33 GHz microwave
signal received by rotating antennas is not exhibiting the frequency
shift ("transverse Doppler effect") predicted by the relativistic
Doppler formula. The sensitivity of the apparatus used has been tested
to be sufficient for detecting frequency shifts as small as 10-3 Hz
which corresponds to the value of (v/c)2 = 5.10-14 used in the
transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. From the observed
absence of the transverse Doppler shift it is concluded that either the
time dilation predicted by the standard theory of special relativity
does not exist in reality or, if it does, is a phenomenon which does
not depend on relative velocities but may be a function of absolute
velocities in the fundamental frame of the isotropic microwave
background radiation.

Can that be true?
Are there measurements that show the transverse Doppler?, e.g GPS.
One thing is clear, that many effects can be explained by use of SR,
e.g lifetime of muons.
I don't know any source that can explain this with Newton.
Also there are effects, like Sagnac, that can be explained with SR and
Newton.
But let's say it with Sir Popper: truth has to be confirmed if still
true.

At the moment I'm not sure how to proceed.
Rudi

Simple. If it violates *GR*, then it's interesting.
SR only works within inertial reference frames; if gravity
or spinning is involved, it gives up and goes home. :-)

Um, it does not for the latter.
SR does not only work with inertial frames:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/acceleration.html
http://www.geocities.com/slithytove5/AccelClocks.htm
etc...

Since you mention rotating antennas this is probably a Sagnac
variant.

... which can be handled by SR perfectly.
http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
(section 7)
etc...

Dirk Vdm


This experiment does not test the transverse Doppler shift
predicted by SR.

See my response to the original poster.

Paul
Thank's for response. Will study it.
My basis is very pragmatic. As long as SR, GR and Newton can
predict/explain the
various effects, I will accept it. If some effects can be explained by
more than one
theory, that is o.k.

What I can say as a "retired el. engineer" is, that SR is very limited.
It is based on c=const and inertial movement and that's all.
E.g. I start from here to Sirius with v=0.866c, gamma = 2
Why does the universe in direction to Sirius know, that it has to
shrink acc. to Gamma?
But there is some non inertial movement at start included.
So in reality -what is this?- it does not shrink, it makes only the
impression for the traveller.
Therefore, because v_earth = v_traveller it is the only explanation to
be within SR.
Acc. to the ship's clock the speed was 2x0.866c on arrival=stopped.
So, all is clear for me,but not satisfying. This will hold on as long
as we have no good explanation for the behaviour of light not to
behave like Newton thought.
I'm not so convinced as Androcles, Andocles pls forgive me, because I
like you very much upon
your clear standpoint if correct or not.

I have not studied to date if some of the GR effects can be expained
with Newton, e.g. GPS clocks correction.

Rudi

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: SR false?
    ... Abstract - An experiment is described showing that a 33 GHz microwave ... transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. ... This experiment is a perfect example of how relativity is about to be ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: SR false?
    ... | Abstract - An experiment is described showing that a 33 GHz microwave ... | transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. ... Muons are 150 times faster than light, ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: SR false?
    ... Abstract - An experiment is described showing that a 33 GHz microwave ... transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. ... Since you mention rotating antennas this is probably a Sagnac ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: SR false?
    ... Dirk Van de moortel wrote: ... Abstract - An experiment is described showing that a 33 GHz microwave ... transverse Doppler shift experiment reported here. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
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