# Re: "Is There a Force of Gravity?"

*From*: "Sue..." <suzysewnshow@xxxxxxxxxxxx>*Date*: 29 Nov 2006 01:00:50 -0800

Mike wrote:

Sue... wrote:

Tom Roberts wrote:

Koobee Wublee wrote:

On Nov 27, 2:11 pm, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

There are literally hundreds of experiments that support and confirm SR,

and many of them refute Newtonian mechanics. Look in the FAQ for references.

This is not true. There are no experiments out there that completely

support SR.

You are wrong. Look it up. <shrug>

However, there are plenty of experiments out there which

agree with the Lorentz transform but not its immediate reciprocal form

which is also the Lorentz transform. To agree with SR, you need an

experiment that show both the Lorentz transform is true as well as its

reciprocal form. <shrug>

You clearly do not know how theories are tested in physics.

There are plenty of experiment that support SR 1920.

But they are not the cranky ones listed in the FAQ

Many are specifically designed to exploit well known

errors in the 1905 paper.

"The Incompatibility of the Law of Propagation of Light

with the Principle of Relativity" is ONLY apparent.

http://www.bartleby.com/173/7.html

PERIOD.

Sue....

This is so fundamental mistake and shows why the man was a crank.

"But this result comes into conflict with the principle of relativity

set forth in Section V. For, like every other general law of nature,

the law of the transmission of light in vacuo must, according to the

principle of relativity, be the same for the railway carriage as

reference-body as when the rails are the body of reference. But, from

our above consideration, this would appear to be impossible. If every

ray of light is propagated relative to the embankment with the velocity

c, then for this reason it would appear that another law of propagation

of light must necessarily hold with respect to the carriage-a result

contradictory to the principle of relativity."

In order to prove universal compatibility, one must prove there is no

case of conflict under any conditions. It is not merely enough to show

a case of agreement. Example of conflict: twin paradox.

This illustrates the major problem of all cranks: no adherence to

logical principles. Actually, he got his agreement because he used

Galilean velocity addition. When he uses the relativistic velocity

addition formula he gets the conflict in twin paradox.

Mike

Einstein a crank?

It isn't clear he could have resolved observer dependent speed of

light with the electromagnetics of 1920.

<< The laws of transformation for space coordinates and time

for the transition from one inertial frame to another, the Lorentz

transformations as they are termed, are unequivocally established

by these definitions and the hypotheses concealed in the

assumption that they are free from contradiction. Their

immediate physical significance lies in the effect of the

motion relative to the used inertial frame on the form of rigid

bodies (Lorentz contraction) and on the rate of the clocks.

According to the special relativity principle the laws of

Nature must be covariant relative to Lorentz transformations;

the theory thus provides a criterion for general laws of Nature.

It leads in particular to a modification of the Newtonian point

motion law in which the velocity of

light in a vacuum is considered the limiting velocity, and it

also leads to the realization that energy and inertial mass are

of like nature. >>

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1921/einstein-lecture.html

GR builds on the valid mass/energy equivalence of the relativistic

mass heurism in SR rather than the absurd space-time continuum

and that is a tacit admission of recognised flaws in the continuum

model.

Heaviside, Hertz and Weber likely did more to explain nearfield

wave impedance and correct Maxwell's time independent equations,

nevertheless, Einstein still lays claim to some achievement in

Gothenburg July 11, 1923 lecture, some years AFTER Paul Langevin

has pointed out the absurdity. The lecture uses the term.

"stipulation of meaning" in this regard, so it seems clear that

Einstein has a pretty good inkling that his "space-time continuum'

was hanging on by a semantic thread.

No doubt his advocates over-sold this aspect of the theory

as sensationalists habitually do.

I woudn't send him to the gallows for trying to offer the

*broadest* interpretation of his theory but it might be

considered cranky by today's standards where science

has a lot more resources to test questionable concepts.

Sue...

Time-independent Maxwell equations

Time-dependent Maxwell's equations

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/lectures.html

Weber knew that because his field equations were relativistic.

Sue...

http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/~loreti/science.html

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pseudo.html

There are dozens of experiments that support and confirm GR, and most if

not all of them refute Newtonian mechanics. Look in the FAQ for references.

Most of all these experiments are faulty. For examples, [...]

Your first two "examples" are the earliest tests, which have since been

repeated with vastly better resolutions and/or accuracy. Your statements

about geodesics are complete and utter nonsense.

But ultimately the equations of motion come from the Einstein field

equation:

G = T G is the Einstein curvature tensor, and T is the

energy-momentum tensor; units are such that c=1

and 8*pi*k=1, k is Newton's gravitational constant.

The Einstein field equations only allow one to solve what the metric

is. These equations do not deal with the geodesics directly.

You CLEARLY do not understand this. For starters, the geodesic equation

follows directly from the field equation, when applied to test particles

(the only particles for which the geodesic equation is valid). In any

case, the field equation determines BOTH the metric and the

energy-momentum tensor, and the latter includes how all objects and

fields in the manifold move and interact.

They are actually not difficult to solve if assuming a diagonal metric

in spherically symmetric coordinate system where the orbital motion is

confined to the equatorial plane.

As I said, "simple systems with lots of geometric symmetries". What you

said is completely unrelated to the spring-mass system I was discussing

-- it is NOWHERE CLOSE to "spherically symmetric", and quite clearly

does not have a "diagonal metric" in any sensible coordinate system that

includes the whole thing.

> [... further outrageous nonsense, such as claiming the Riemann

> tensor was "designed by Ricci"...]

Tom Roberts

.

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