Re: A Challenge to Orthodox Relativity


Pax wrote:
<Paradise_@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1165403961.672796.55620@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Paul Cardinale wrote:
Paradise_@xxxxxxxx wrote:
Although it is said that time slows down and stops at the event horizon
of a black hole (due to the supposed fact that a local increase of
gravity slows the local rate of time flow), I intuitively disagree. I
would expect that time would run infinitely fast at the event horizon.
That's because time is a measure of entropy or change. Acceleration is
a measure of change in velocity, and velocity is a measure of change in
position. In other words, acceleration is a measure of change in the
change of position. Since a mass accelerates as it approaches the event
horizon, the time rate of change (in position), or entropy, of the mass
is increasing. Therefore, the rate of time flow for a mass entering a
black hole should be increasing. I believe that the velocity of the
mass increases purely because it's local rate of time flow is
increasing.


So according to your intuition, time dilation is proportional to
acceleration.

Yes.

That is not what is observed. Your intuition is empirically wrong.

Rest snipped unread.

Paul Cardinale

A massive object's velocity increases in response to an increase of
gravitational force.

Yes, since gravity and acceleration are identical forces, according to
Relativity.

Yet, according to the standard interpretation and application of
Einstein's equations, the velocity of a massive object entering a black
hole will appear to decrease as it gets progressively closer to the event
horizon and will actually never be observed to enter the black hole
because it will take an infinite amount of time for it to reach the event
horizon (from a relatively stationary perspective outside the event
horizon).

Yes, I have heard just that said.

Yet, the fact is that the object's velocity should increase as it
approaches the event horizon, not decrease.

Logically, yes.

If the object's observed/measured velocity decreased in response to an
increase of gravitational force a paradox would be created. An object
cannot be accelerating and decelerating simultaneously.

Except through an illusionary effect causing what is observed to differ from
what is actually occurring, perhaps.


I will concede that an observer may not be able to see an objects true
position due to delays in the propagation of reflected light. For the
same reason, we are not able to see the true positions of distant
stars. We see it's past state and position. Not it's present state or
position. The same would be true of an acclerated object. Yet, the
magnitude of such a delay would depend upon it's distance from an
observer as opposed to it's velocity (alone).

If an object were to appear motionless at the speed of light, photons
would not propagate and massive particles accelerated in a paticle
accelerator would take progressively longer to reach a target as the
velocity is increased. Yet, THIS is not what is observed. Photons DO
propagate. And accelerated particles intersect with their targets in less
time when accelerated at increased velocities. Obviously, the standard
interpretation is "empirically wrong". Not I.

As an interesting aside, from the FoR of one ion in an accelerator moving at
almost c, the other ion coming at it from the opposite direction (also
moving at almost c) is approaching it at almost 2c. From the FoR of one of
the researchers, the ions are coming together at almost 2c. Yet, in a
conversation I had with a researcher from RHIC a couple of years ago, he
refused to even consider that simple observation, insisting velocities in
excess of c were not possible.


Although the relative velocity between the two particles may *appear*
to exceed c, the velocitities of the two particles does not exceed c
relative to the boundary (in other words, from the reference frame of
the ZPE "Aether"). A similar paradox emerges for objects which are
moving apart at a velocity greater than 50% of c because the relative
velocity between them is greater than c. If the two objects are
vehicles, how would the pilots communicate? According to the laws of
physics, any signal transmitted by one would never be reached by the
other. The solution is to use a relay transceiver which is relatively
stationary between the two vehicles to receive and retransmit signals.
From the transceivers from of FoR, the vehicles are travelling at a
velocity equal to or less than c. And from the vehicles FoR, the
transceiver is "moving" at a velocity equal to or less than c. Thus,
communication becomes possible via such a relay transceiver.

There's nowhere to go from there, when the very researchers doing the
observing refuse to acknowledge the obvious. But, who knows, perhaps things
have changed since I had that conversation. I can hope, anyway. :)

Be well - Pax

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: If
    ... | observer as a camera, and restricting our field of view to a small ... | Since the length is changes as the rod accelerates, ... acceleration and if this is constant the force at the front is the same as ... After the initial contraction period the velocity at the front is the same ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: A Challenge to Orthodox Relativity
    ... gravity slows the local rate of time flow), ... a measure of change in velocity, and velocity is a measure of change in ... acceleration is a measure of change in the ... black hole should be increasing. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Little guy on the train
    ... | The fluid analogy does not work in this sense: ... | by that fluid in such a way that the velocity of the object aligns ... Clearly the acceleration of a field defines its intensity but once the field ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: A Challenge to Orthodox Relativity
    ... Acceleration is a measure of change ... in velocity, and velocity is a measure of change in position. ... I will concede that an observer may not be able to see an objects true ... expanded along the axis of motion. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: A Challenge to Orthodox Relativity
    ... in velocity, and velocity is a measure of change in position. ... acceleration is a measure of change in the change ... expanded along the axis of motion. ... If you take the PoV assumed in Relativity, ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
Loading