Re: Simultaneous events experiment
- From: sal <pragmatist@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 23:38:19 -0500
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:44:14 -0600, David wrote:
I don't understand how to explain the following experiment using
Einstein's notions of simultaneous events.
I have an ideal laser at x=0,y=0 and a target centered at x=L and y=0. The
target extends in the y and z directions but is always perpendicular to
the x-axis. The laser is pointed at the center of the target. I fire the
laser at the target. After the laser hits the target, when I bring the
target into my lab, I find that a perfect circle is burned into the target
by the laser beam. I reposition the target at different x coordinates
and repeat the experiment. I find the burn pattern is always a perfect
circle, but not necessarily the same size circle.
I then move the target to x=L and y=D. The target is
perpendicular to the x-axis. I point the laser at the center of the
target. The beam burns a pattern into the target. When I examine the
target in my lab I find that the burn pattern is no longer a perfect
circle. If the target is nomal to the x-axis, for the burn pattern to be
a perfect circle, the target must be on the x-axis as the laser is.
Now I do an experiment where both the laser and target move with
the same velocity in the Y direction. I find that if the laser fires when
it crosses the x-axis and the target center and the center of the laser
beam both cross the x-axis at the same time as measured in my inertial
frame, the burn pattern on the target remains a circle when the target is
examined in my lab. I find that if the laser and target cross the x-axis
at different times, the burn pattern is no longer a perfect circle. I
realize this is simply the same experiment performed in a different
inertial reference frame. (note when the target is moving in the Y
direction, per Einstein I will not measure the pattern to be a circle, but
when it is brought into my lab, that is brought into my inertial reference
frame, it will be a circle)
Now for me to determine whether or not the laser and target
crossed the x-axis simultaneously as measured in my frame, I just examine
the burn pattern in my lab. If the burn pattern is a perfect circle, I
know that the laser and target crossed the x-axis at the same time.
I don't see how someone moving along the x axis with velocity V
relative to my frame can come to a different conclusion. He does the same
experiments, and comes to the same conclusion about the burn pattern.
In his frame the laser and target were not moving vertically. They were
moving _diagonally_.
Furthermore, in his frame the target wasn't perpendicular to the X axis;
it was tilted.
Lorentz, Lorentz, Lorentz. Transform the events from one frame to another
and you will see the results for yourself. (Or perhaps you already have
and just never ever post the results to the NG? ... whatever)
He
can examine the burn pattern in his lab. If the burn pattern is a perfect
circle, he knows that the laser and target both crossed the x-axis
simultaneously.
But Einstein's theory says that if the laser and target cross the
x-axis simultaneously at different points along the x-axis as measured in
my frame, then these same events will not be simultaneous to someone who
is moving along the x-axis with velocity V relative to my frame. But our
experiment shows that we can look at a single piece of data (the burn
pattern) and determine whether or not the events were simultaneous or not.
Somehow as this target board is transported into different frames, the
burn pattern must change.
Please explain how that happens.
Thanks,
David Seppala
--
Nospam becomes physicsinsights to fix the email
I can be also contacted through http://www.physicsinsights.org
.
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