Re: Time dilation and expanding space

On Feb 28, 8:14 am, bz <bz+...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote innews:1172664755.521880.124120@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:





On Feb 28, 5:55 am, bz <bz+...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:1172642156.376982.237460 @k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

The term nuclear-resonance is used by Pound-Snider
to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude.

Are you sure that is how they used the term??

It is more likely that nuclear-resonance is used to describe the
Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear
resonance effect.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nuclear/mossfe.html

"Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation"
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v140/i3B/pB788_1

Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics, Harvard University,
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1

" The classical phenomenon of the redshift of light in a
static gravitational potential, usually called the gravitational
redshift, is described in the literature essentially in two ways:
On the one hand, the phenomenon is explained through the
behavior of clocks which run faster the higher they are
located in the potential, whereas the energy and frequency
of the propagating photon do not change with height. The light
thus appears to be redshifted relative to the frequency of the
clock. On the other hand, the phenomenon is alternatively
discussed (even in some authoritative texts) in terms of an
energy loss of a photon as it overcomes the gravitational
attraction of the massive body. This second approach
operates with notions such as the "gravitational mass" or
the "potential energy" of a photon and we assert that it is
misleading. We do not claim to present any original ideas
or to give a comprehensive review of the subject, our goal
being essentially a pedagogical one.

The quote above, comes from your reference, below.>http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9907017

On the Interpretation of the Redshift in a Static Gravitational Field
Authors: L.B. Okun (ITEP, Moscow), K.G. Selivanov (ITEP, Moscow), V.L.
Telegdi (EP Division, CERN)

I see NOTHING there suggesting that "The term nuclear-resonance is used by
Pound-Snider to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude."

How many "F"s are there in Nuke-U-Lar?

"Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance"
R. V. Pound and J. L. Snider
Lyman Laboratory of Physics,
Harvard University, Cambridge,
Massachusetts
Received 24 September 1964
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v13/i18/p539_1


Okun et al ALSO seem to discount "gravitational mass" or "potential energy"
as an explanation for the shift, saying "we assert that it is misleading."

I am surprised that you cited them because I thought that was your horse. I
thought you were against the 'clock speed' explaination for the red shift
that they seem to favor.

The "falling photon" is what is absurd. Slower motion in the
surface clock is completly consistant with inertial behavior.

Aparently the absurdity wasn't generally recognised
untill a few GPS SVs demonstrated consistancy in the
launch presets. As Okun explains, the acceptance of
the absurdity was wide-spread in academia:
"even in some authoritative texts"

Sue...



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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Time dilation and expanding space
    ... Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear ... used by Pound-Snider to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude." ... "Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance" ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Time dilation and expanding space
    ... to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude. ... Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear ... The title is "Effect of Gravity on Nuclear Resonance" ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Time dilation and expanding space
    ... "Effect of Gravity on Gamma Radiation" ... redshift, is described in the literature essentially in two ways: ... I see NOTHING there suggesting that "The term nuclear-resonance is used by ... Pound-Snider to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude." ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Time dilation and expanding space
    ... Mossbauer effect itself, since the Mossbauer effect IS a nuclear ... used by Pound-Snider to describe a Mossbauer shift with altitude." ... But I seem to recall you saying that clocks do not care what altitude they ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)