Re: twins versus quanta collapse


N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) ha scritto:

Dear beda pietanza:

"beda pietanza" <beda-pietanza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1175017263.749125.293390@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) ha scritto:

Dear beda pietanza:

"beda pietanza" <beda-pietanza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1174939618.434774.270320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) ha scritto:

Dear beda pietanza:

"beda pietanza" <beda-pietanza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1174781492.834428.307320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
...
What is the prove that the linking takes place after the
measurement and not simply (a priori) from the
common source ??????????

I apologize for the redundancy and thanks for the
attention.

I wish you had read what I wrote below. Because
you again make the same mistake.

Two streams of entangled particles, sent "left" are
spin up, sent "right" are spin down.

I don't mean to correct you but myself: as far as I
understand the two streams of particles should
have the spin randomly changing.

There is no need to allow this. Entangled particles
can be "sorted", and this makes the apparatus (and
detection) more simple, more definitive.

Sorting particles without affecting them??? how is it
done ???

Sorting is affecting them, but it does not break the
entanglement. I don't know how it was done, I just recall the
results.

The "left" stream is passed into a
shielded, distant device to flip the spin on the
particle stream contained within it.

flipping in this case is tantamount of measuring
because doing measuring and flipping in a row
only the first would produce the collapse of the
outcome.

And the outcome is detectable a finite distance away,
and occurs the same distance (within our ability ot
measure) from the branch as the "flipper" acts on one
stream.

Looks like there is a God trying to fool the experimenters

Not at all. It is us fooling ourselves, forgetting the wave
nature of the entangled system involved. We look at "discrete"
and forget the "continuous" part.

Far away in the "right" stream, for no
apparent reason, and only when / if the "left"
stream is flipped, the other does too.

it comes to the same question: is the measurement
(with or without the subsequent flipping) on one the
path that makes the change on the other or all was
set from the start at generation of the entangled
couples at the source ????

Turn the flipping off and neither particle stream flips.
The actor is *now*, the entanglement was *then*.

This does produce a problem of identity and of
position of the particles: you saying distance and
time having no meaning in QM don't suffice.

Then learn the topic and prove me wrong.

I resume these statements:

a)Entanglement is the correlation between two
particles/photons generated from a single event by
a single source.

It is possible to have multi-body entanglement. The
process of entanglement is not necessarily an
instantaneous process, and may require multiple steps.

b)The collapse of the wave funtion is the outcome
of a measurement done on a single particle/photon
that fixes, from a range of possible outcomes, just
the one obtained.

The collapse could be initiated by another process
(such as spin flipping).

c)The collapse of the wave function a) is istantly
transferred to the other particle/photon.

Please correct, comment or integrate

This is correct. The point is, neither particle is
ever "really" separated from the other. An
entangled system is a system unto itself, and
our impressed "separation" says something about
*us*, and not so much about the entangled system.

It is too much for me to put up with, what would be
the difference between collocated objects and
separated objects then ????

Center of momentum. As much a function of the measuring system
as that which is measured.

A entangled photon can travel along with light
pulses that are not entangled and share the same
spatial position through time. How do you tell the
one from the other space and time wise.

You are now very wise. This is one problem with signalling with
entangled systems.

Does the universe stay in a single point ????

As far as QM goes, there is no point single or otherwise. No
confinement, no limit (and no landscape), no rush. Maybe just
sequence...

Please can you mention a reference of a available
test of such an experiment ????

I'll dig through my "Modern" Physics text, to see what is there.

Here is a web hits that might let you get closer on your own...
http://www.stanford.edu/group/yamamotogroup/Thesis/WDOthesis.pdf
... *not* a small pdf.

I didn't succede to download it, the max. I piled up was 2 Mb, how big
it really is??
I will try at a different hour anyways.

I went through some material on the net, an idea came to my mind:
along the path of light there might be standing waves left behind
that
could play a role in the entanglement and in the transferring the
collapse
to the other path.

Have you ever heard of such hypothesis ?????

best regards

beda pietanza





David A. Smith

.

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