Re: Expanding the gedanken

On 1 Apr, 12:39, "Jeckyl" <n...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<j...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1175422335.853585.47380@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Well in my previous post we were considered with two lightpaths that
travelled from the *middle* of the ship and hit front hull and back
hull.

I must have missed that post

Well maybe you should go read that post to see what your SR brothers
have been thinking.

From what you describe, they would hit at the same time. But views from a
different frame of reference the events would not be simultaneous.

No they will not hit at the same time, it has nothing to do with
views, the ship occupy two spaces at the moment physically.

It is not viewed to be at two places, the front and the back of the
ship is spatially separated by the distance.

Ask your SR brothers.

There we could see that the *supposed* simultaneous event of the two
lightbeams hitting front and back hull took place at different
cordinates/places/positions/points in any cordinate space surrounding
the ship, quite strangely since both the emission position and
roundtrip position only have one cordinate/place/position/point in any
cordinate space.

I don't see any contradiction there

Well you will if you calculte the spatial separation of front and
back, because it is velocity dependent.

But still SR people will claim that light travel invariant as measured
in any frame

Yes

Yes but that make your front and back occupy two spaces, spatially
separated of any velocity dependent distance you see, i think you
should read the other thread.
...And still yet hit the walls simultaneous within that space

If they are the same distance from the middle of the ship, then yes

One can easily see that the lightbeams expands vector dependent
from the middle of the ship in the rest space (when assuming the
Lorentz transform is correct and applying it).

If we now instead place a radiotransmitter in the front and back, and
let person A and B walk towards the front and back to turn the
transmitters off at moment x.

So we are assuming they start equidisant from the fron and back (ie the
middle), and walk at the same speed (but opposite directions)

Sure we do

The two persons will not reach the wall
at the same moment and place in time and space they will have two
coordinates.

Yes .. the front and back are are different positions.

Yes you state the obvious, what is not is obvious is how far they
spatially is separated at the moment, let us say the ship is 50 meter
and travel at 0.9999

This will lead to the conclusion that either the ship
somehow expanded to occupy both positions/cordinates or that the ship
actually occupy two cordinates in any cordinate system.

Eh? .. it just means that the front and the back aren't the same place.

You are very confused, calculate the spatial separation for the
events.

To settle this i propose we exchange the radio transmitters with
explosives in front and the back and escape pods when a escape pods is
used the ship is set to self destruction in x amount of time.

I think we can be pretty sure that only SR relativist sneaking out the
backway taking the escape pod will survive the scenario, the loud and
proud SRian in the front is doomed muhahahahhahah
Relative simultanity my ass, this scenario only have one surviver

I don't follow your argument there. And SR relativist would say that the
people arive at the same time (but different places) relative to the ship.
Is there something I've missed in your description?

Well the places is not separated by the ship length you see they can
be separated by any distance depending on velocity. You do go on count
on where each light hit each wall when travelling at 0.9999 c. And you
will get how far spatially separated from eachother the two places/
positions/points is in space.


No i actually think there is something you missed in the description
of SR.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Expanding the gedanken
    ... travelled from the *middle* of the ship and hit front hull and back ... cordinates/places/positions/points in any cordinate space surrounding ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Expanding the gedanken
    ... travelled from the *middle* of the ship and hit front hull and back ... cordinates/places/positions/points in any cordinate space surrounding ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Simultaneous moments within SR
    ... "fired from the center within the ship", hit the front wall and the ... and the front of the train a minute later. ... Thus, according to that measurement, while the backward going ... simultaneous events CAN NOT HAVE LARGER SPATIAL SEPARATION THAN THE ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Expanding the gedanken
    ... travelled from the *middle* of the ship and hit front hull and back ... cordinates/places/positions/points in any cordinate space surrounding ... But still SR people will claim that light travel invariant as measured ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Some nice starship schematics
    ... resizes of the Bird of Prey hull configuration). ... The hull obviously has some effect on warp travel, ... overall size of the ship, but I don't think any ship has been ... the warp field interacts with the deflector screens. ...
    (rec.arts.startrek.tech)