Re: Perhaps Time should be the 1st vector (1st dimension) not the 4th?
- From: "guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx" <guskz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 30 Apr 2007 21:19:58 -0700
On Apr 30, 12:50 pm, bz <bz+...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"g...@xxxxxxxxxxx" <g...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote innews:1177948074.166830.249340@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
On Apr 29, 2:52 pm, bz <bz+r...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:....
You still have not indicated that you understand the difference between
the scalar elements of avectorand avector.
Let us take the speed 25 mph and the direction 0 degrees (north).
Neither of those is avector, but the velocity of 25 mph at zero degrees
IS avector.
The time May 24, 1948, 12:55 pm is not avector.
The location 55.24 N 27.33 w, on the earths surface is not avector.
Together, they describe a location in space-time that can be described
in (x,y,z,t) format.
You are 115% correct, but I've "always" hated assigning magnitudes to
vectors.
And for this reason,within a few months I will once again as before
forget your definition.
Not my definition. The origin of the entire concept of a vector.
You never hear them calling them axises or directions...only the term
vectors
and often times their magnitudes(scalars) can be arbitrary.
Try navigating an aircraft by dead reconning. You will quickly realize that
vectors are neither arbitrary nor forgiving.
Any idea how many aircraft have been lost at sea or run into mountains
because the navigator made a mistake adding vectors? Any idea how many
structures have collapsed because someone made a mistake in vector math?
Understanding vectors is a life or death proposition.
As well vectors under you definition have aribitrary angles and thus
are permitted
to cross over into multi-axises = interference.
You have been flying at an air speed of 150 kt at 045 degrees for 3 hours.
You just got a weather report indicating a wind speed of 25 kt at 237
degrees at your altitude. What course do you need to steer now in order to
reach that refueling stop on that island that was 400 kt at 045 degrees
from your starting place. Do you have enough fuel (one hours worth at
current air speed) to make it or should you make an emergency landing on
that island you see off to your north?
Those are the kinds of decisions that vectors are used for.
Reality doesn't care how well you can pretend to understand
physics/vectors/math, it only cares if you get the right answer.
Your 115% correct, but in terms of spacetime (t,x,y,z) vectors no
magnitude is ascribed to them
as they make up the spacetime manifold....
Simple pretend a bunch of flat movie frames (2 axis) and each frame atI prefer the term of
vectors as tangeant spaces to each other (never crossing/encroaching).
I prefer the (x,y,z) vectors as tangeant
ITUM perpendicular. Tangent means "parallel to" at the point of contact.
to one another (90 degrees)
and never cross (single axis).
You can resolve any vector into components that are mutually perpendicular
to each other.
To which axis is x perpendicular (y,z, of course)
To which axis is y perpendicular (x,z)
To which axis is z perpendicular (x,y)
To which axis is t perpendicular?(???)
one point along the t axis (never negative).
Likewise for x,y,z but this time its a cube at each point along the t
axis (they usually show it as a 45 axis pointing out)?
????
Meaning N E S or W and not a 30 degees NE vector with 5 feet of scalar
magnitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_(spatial)
QUTOE:" In physics and in vector calculus, a spatial vector, or simply
vector, is a concept characterized by a magnitude and a direction.
A spatial vector can be formally defined by its relationship to the
spatial coordinate system under rotations.
**** Alternatively, it can be defined in a coordinate-free fashion via
a ****tangent space**** of a three-dimensional manifold in the
language of differential geometry.
A spatial vector is a special case of a tensor and is also analogous
to a four-vector in relativity (and is sometimes therefore called a
three-vector in reference to the three spatial dimensions, "
The movement in space-time from that location-time to today (keeping
the same physical location and ignoring the motions of the earth-sun
etc.,) would be a movement through time and might be considered to be a
4vector. Whether or not it might be useful to perform
anyvectormathematics upon such a 4vector would depend upon how it was
being used.
Whether thevectoris written at (x,y,z,t) or (t,x,y,z) or even (x,t,z,y)
is unimportant, as long as all operations keep the same order.
That is the answer to the question you ask in the subject line.
I'm no expert on tensors or manifolds
Nor am I.
but "t" is the only vector that
is
unidirectional
t is not a vector, uni or otherwise directional.
It represents the magnitude of the 't' component of a 4vector that
represents space-time.
the 4 vectors are t,x,y,z ?
And when they speak of the 3 vectors of space is (x,y,z) (spacetime
is (t,x,y,z))
.....if it were a magnitude it would be (tx, ty,tz)
in minkowski spacetime, I believe the answers are:
To which axis is x perpendicular (y,z,t)
correct x is perpendicular to the vector "t" and not the magnitude "t"
To which axis is y perpendicular (x,z,t)I would dispute that....spacetime I believe is exactly similar to the
To which axis is z perpendicular (x,y,t)
To which axis is t perpendicular?(x,y,z)
, it precise location within the tensor formulas should
be
important toward the final shape of the manifold (beginning and an end
and inline with thermal conduitivity)
where as the other dimensions (vectors) of the manifold should be bi-
directional.
The order of the components should make no more difference than if you
decided to call the horizontal axis on a graph 'george' and the vertical
axis 'gerti' and you plotted a graph of george vs gerti.
As long as you are consistent, it doesn't matter what order you put things
in.
following:
Singularity= TV tube's electron gun (transistor)
Explosion = time (t axis) = electron propagating FORWARD(never
negative) only away from electron gun (1st spacetime monopole, no
di..pole theory)
(WHERE THIS PROPAGATION IS OCCURING is irrelevant ...it's a single
straight line(single axis(the string...string because "they" say all
spacetime lines are non-euclidean))....it only becomes relevant when
comparing to the other three dimensions which are
created(perpendicularly intersect with) by the time axis.
1st dimension = electron's complete trajectory from electron gun to
fluorescent screne (z axis = depth).
2nd dimension = horizontal( x axis) trajectory from electron along the
fluorescent screne
3rd dimension = vertical (y axis) trajectory from electron along the
fluorescent tv screne.
All three (1,2,3) dimensions could not exist with the PROPAGATION of
time....
....therefore I can't conceive how as you said:
"> As long as you are consistent, it doesn't matter what order you put
things
in."
How in the TV example above can you put the "x" axis ahead of the time
axis where as it is the Propagation (flow of time) itself that created
the "x" axis and not the "x" axis that created the "t" axis
(propagation axis)?
I'm not certain, but I believe they attribute divergence to scalar
fields and curls to vector fields.
Out of the bounds of my expertice.
Can you explain how time can BOTH be a scalar and a vector?
It can be either one or the other, depending on how it is being used.
What geometry is 'time' a part of?
Minkowski spacetime? Vector component.
3 space+time? scalar.
guskz time&space super theory? vector.
--
bz
please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.
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