Re: O'Barr: Modifications of SR have begun.

On Jun 10, 3:31 pm, Phil <cms...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 10, 3:02 am, harry <harald.vanlin...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jun 10, 5:24 am, Phil <cms...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 9, 4:48 pm, "Gerald L. O'Barr" <glob...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Subject: Re: O'Barr: Modifications of SR have begun.
O'Barr comments:
That is partially true. There are some special SR
observers who will observe a velocity of c, but only
in their own frame, not in all frames. We find that
it is only those who are actually in the frame where
the speed is being measured that will measure such a
value.

Good grief, Gerald. Why would I ask someone in another frame of
reference to take measurements for me. Thats mad science, don't you
think?

Phil, your question is based on inaccurate phrasings. Nevertheless,
such "mad science" considerations were at the basis of the
developments of SRT and the energy-mass relationship. Also, for
accurate measurements (such as GPS), the used coordinate system
corresponds to a virtual frame of reference in which most people and
instruments are *not* at rest most of the time. If you call that mad,
perhaps science is not for you. :-)

Cheers,
Harald

On Jun 10, 3:02 am, harry <harald.vanlin...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jun 10, 5:24 am, Phil <cms...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jun 9, 4:48 pm, "Gerald L. O'Barr" <glob...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Subject: Re: O'Barr: Modifications of SR have begun.
O'Barr comments:
That is partially true. There are some special SR
observers who will observe a velocity of c, but only
in their own frame, not in all frames. We find that
it is only those who are actually in the frame where
the speed is being measured that will measure such a
value.

Good grief, Gerald. Why would I ask someone in another frame of
reference to take measurements for me. Thats mad science, don't you
think?

Phil, your question is based on inaccurate phrasings. Nevertheless,
such "mad science" considerations were at the basis of the
developments of SRT and the energy-mass relationship. Also, for
accurate measurements (such as GPS), the used coordinate system
corresponds to a virtual frame of reference in which most people and
instruments are *not* at rest most of the time. If you call that mad,
perhaps science is not for you. :-)

Cheers,
Harald

[...]

I wasn't aware that any measurements were ever taken
in other frames of reference in order to develop the energy-mass
relationship.

Not measutements but considerations. Einstein was a master in drawing
conclusios from regarding situations from different reference frames.
You can read it from the "horse's mouth" in:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/

[...]

Furthermore, in GPS, I am not aware of any measurements the satellites
are making.

That was my point: the satellite's are necessary instruments in the
GPS distance and speed determinations but no satellite "frame" is
used.

Isn't a lab on Earth making the measurements necessary to
resychronoze the satellites?

Sure. However, if you thought that some lab is at rest in the
coordinate system that is used as reference for GPS, you were
mistaken.

And isn't my GPS unit taking the
measurements which will ulitmately calculate my location? I see no
evidence of any passing away of measurement taking to other frames of
reference.

The used coordinate system is the "Earth Centered Inertial Frame" and
the velocity of your GPS unit is accounted for. The measurement result
is mapped to your local frame - your coordinates are moving in the ECI
frame. Your GPS unit may be moving relative to both coordinate
systems, for example if you have it in your car.

Granted, it is a valid scientific inquiry to seek knowledge of the
course of events in another frame's coordinate system, especially, in
the context of relativity which seeks to make the physical laws
governing the course of events universal to all frames of reference.
Even so, every frame is responsible to make its own measurements.

That would be extremely impractical.

Cheers,
Harald

.

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