Re: So... Lerentz Contractions are *physical* not observered?


"Jem" <xxx@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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kenseto wrote:

"jem" <xxx@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"jem" <xxx@xxxxxxx> wrote in message

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"Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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mgconsolidated@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



Can anyone provide / point to a definitive answer on whether
Lorentz
contractions are physical or an observered effect.

This depends on what you mean by those words.

Here's an analogy: a ladder will fit through a doorway if it is

oriented

correctly, and won't fit if it is oriented differently -- is this
difference "physical"? -- after all neither the length of the ladder

nor

the width of the doorway change in any way. This is an example of
GEOMETRICAL PROJECTION -- if the projection of the ladder's length

onto

the doorway's width is small then it fits, and if that projection is
large then it won't; this depends on their relative orientation.


Instead of the ladder we have a circular metal plate with a diameter
of

Dp


and the door in the barn is also circular with a diameter of Db. Dp
is

lager


than Db. Now Dp is accelerated to a relativistic speed will it fit

through


the smaller Db door???

Does IRT have an answer, Seto?


Yes IRT has an answer as follows:
Dp will not fit through the smaller Db door.
Why?
In IRT the physical length of an object remains the same in all frames

of

reference.... even as viewed by different observers. In IRT the light

path

length of an object is different in different frames. The higher is the
state of absolute motion of an object the longer is it's light path

length.

An IRT observer does not know if the rod moving wrt him is in a higher

or

lower state of absolute motion. That's why IRT has two sets of
equations

for

the light path length of a moving rod. When the moving rod is in a

higher

state of absolute motion than the IRT observer then its light path

length is

longer than the light path length of the IRT observer's rod by a factor

of

(gamma). When the moving rod is in a lower state of absolute motion
than

the

IRT observer then its light path length is shorter than the light path
length of the IRT observer's rod by a factor of (1/gamma).....BTW this

is

the formula for the SR length contraction.

Same for SR, Seto. Except for the "Why?" part, of course. :)


No its not the same for SR. SR says that a rod is able to fit through
the
door way because of rotation of the rod. With my example how is SR able
to
explain that the circular plate is able to fit through the door way

Duh! Didn't I just tell you that SR says it /isn't/ able to fit
through? Are you working on your Space Cadet certification, or what?

Duh....didn't Roberts and you say that you can rotate a rod to fit through
the door way? Now you are saying that a circular plate can't rotate and fit
through the door way. Does that mean that the SR concept of rotation
(geometric projection) is a bunch of bull ***? BTW the SR mutal time
dilation and mutual length contraction are derived from the same SR bull
*** of geometric projection.

Ken Seto


when
rotation will not do the trick? IRT definitely says that the larger
circular plate will not be able to fit through the smaller door way no
matter what speed it is moving..



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