Re: "Relativity and Reasonableness Tests"

<bsr3997@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Jul 5, 10:36 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<bsr3...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Jul 5, 9:18 pm, "Jeckyl" <n...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It isn't about the nature of light .. it is independant of the nature
of
light. One less comlpication for SR
other than to say it travels at C in all frames.
Yes
From Einstein's 1905 paper, "light is always propagated in empty space
with a definite velocity C which is independent of the state of motion
of the emitting body."

Here he has postulated a magical property for light, unlike anything
else, and no attempt is made to explain how light does this.

Its an experimental observation .. SR doesn't have to explain why.

Bull***!

Not at all

In 1905 they didn't even know exactly what the speed of
light was.

That doesn't matter

The fact that the speed of light, "is independent of the
state of motion of the emitting body." implies that it is a wave as
opposed to ballistic.

No .. it might do to some, though.

It can be postulated to be C in all frames
because no way has been found to determine which frame is the frame of
the medium.

And so far that postulate has been expermentally observed to be correct

You can read Lorentz's reason for why that is, or accept
it on faith.

There is no faith required .. it is expermientally observed

LET
starts with light traveling at a constant speed only in the aether
frame
Why does it go at a constant speed in the ether
Same reason sound propagates at a more or less constant speed in air.
It is a property of waves in a medium.
.. why is that speed what it is
Probably the size and velocity of the particles making up the aether.

And what is the ether made up of? What can't we detect it?

.. why can't we detect the ether
You can but refuse to accept the evidence.

What evidence?

.. what is the ether made from
Aether particles of course ;-)

And what are they ? What are their properties? Their mass? Their charge?
Their spin? Their size?...

.. what properties does it have
It allows electric and magnetic fields to propagate.

Not an answer

Some also
attribute gravity to it. Look up LeSage gravity. BTW there is an
aether equivelent to GR. Look up GET.
... how and why does it make objects contract and clocks slow down
If an objects shape is determined by electromagnetic forces
maintaining the spacing between its particles it will wnd up
contracted when in motion.

Why? How does the ether do that?

For a two way trip over the fixed distance
the wave traveling at c-v takes longer to cover the distance than the
wave traveling at c+v, so the average speed ends up less than c, which
is what it would be if it weren't moving.

For the clock slowing down the light clock doing a zig zag vs straight
up and down works just as well for LET as it does for SR.

That is not an explanation as to why the ehter slows down all clocks and
processes

.. lots of unanswered questions in LET.
That must be one of them retorical questions :-)

No .. its just one of the many questions that Let raises and for which there
is no answer.

and shows how it ends up being measured to travel at C in all
frames.
Whereas in SR light is postulated as travelling at c .. SR doesn't need
to
explain WHY it does that. Just like we don't need to explain why inertia
makes objects keep moving.
Anyone can see, literally, that a body in motion tends to stay in
motion.

And anyone (with the right equipment) can see that light travels at c

The idea that a beam of light has the same speed relative to
both a stationary and moving observer is a whole different animal.

No .. its something that we 'see' .. just like objects in motion remaining
in motion.

We
are used to things having different speeds depending on whether we are
standing on the side of the road or riding in a car.

Yes, we are.

When you
contradict what we normally observe an explaination is in order.

Minkowski space explains it nicely

Science is not supposed to be about just postulating things and seeing
if they work.

Really?

No explaination is given for how it manages to do that, it is just a
given.
We don't need to know how light propogates .. only that there is a
maximum
finite speed at which information can be exchanged (including light)
LET explains
how light is measured to travel at C in all frames
SR does as well .. because c is the maximum speed. Minkowski
spacetime
makes it that way
Postulating is not explaining.
It has to in Minkowski space
The equations describe what has happen in the past, allowing us to
predict what will happen in a given situation. The equations do not
cause anything to happen.

Of course not .. phyiscs doesn't determine reality .. its the other way
around

If the underlying mechanisem were different
then different equations whould be needed to describe what happens.
What is the underlying mechanisem that causes the observed results?

Minkowski space describes it well. And without mysterious ether particle

even though its
closing speed with objects moving in the aether frame is not C.
Same with SR and minkowski spacetime
No, in SR the only time anyone wants to hear about the closing speed
of light being anything but C is when relative simultaniety is
explained.
Because its not a useful concept .. that other objects are moving about
while light is travelling has no bearing on how fast the light travels.
That is one of the things that makes RS so difficult for
many new students. They can see the closing speed is not C and can't
understand how the moving observer could measure it to be C.
Then it needs to be exaplined .. just as it does in LET
You just said the LET explaination was a useless concept.

No, I did not.

LET has just as much (if not more) weirdness that needs explaining as SR.

And if
they refuse to accept it on faith they are either given the same
explaination over and over or have their intelligence questioned.
That shows that teachers arent teaching it well enough .. why do you
think
teachers using LEt wouldn't do the same thing?

Because they wouldn't expect students to accept that light magicly
travels at C in relation to all observers while at the same time
telling them that an observer, "is hastening toward the beam of light
coming from B, whilst he is riding on ahead of the light coming from
A." Is light traveling at C for this observer or not? Is it the same
C or a different one? How can it possibly be the same C if it takes
longer for the beam from behind to overtake him?

Minkowski space explains it nicely without mysterious undetectable ether
that slows down clock and shrinks objects. Maybe we should just say the God
does it?


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