Re: Twin paradox revisited ll

"bill" <cosmosco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1185767620.803614.134200@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You are missing the point of my original posting which was that in the
correspondence 10 years ago and now in Mike's posting the traveler
determines that his twin appears to be aging at a slower rate than he
is thus he concludes that this is *physically, meaningfully, really*
taking place;

It is

that as Mike points out - when the traveler accelerates
during his return trip his sister's aging rate is *reversed*.

In accordance with that concept - the traveler truly believes that
during his period of acceleration the earth is *physically* spinning
backwards and is orbiting the sun in the opposite direction;

I don't think time actually goes backwards at any point .. I've not seen
that predicted by any of the explanations. It would not make sense, as time
for the earth is supposed to be FASTER from the non-inertial frame of the
traveller .. not backward.

[snip objections to something that I don't believe is prediceted]

One response to this discussion was that the traveler's actions - his
direction or rate of travel and his pressure upon, or release of, the
gas pedal - can have *no* physical effect on the earth or his sister
or on every galaxy in the entire universe and I tend to agree.

Any 'law' that insists otherwise is asinine.

If its what happnes, thne what you think about it makes no differenec. You
cannot appeal a law of nature

The traveler is sitting in his ship on the launch pad. He hears the
command 'ignition'. He sees voluminous clouds of smoke and flames and
feels himself being pushed back into his seat. He continues to
accelerate and, as he does so, he sees, out his front window, that
section of the universe *appearing* to accelerate toward him and, via
his rear-view mirror, the rest of the universe, including the earth,
*appearing* to accelerate away from him.

What he thinkgs doesn't matter

He takes his foot off the gas pedal and at that very instant,
according to some posters, he is of the opinion that he is no longer
moving but that he is at rest and it is the universe that is moving
past him!

That's correct .. both views are equally correct. And note that how much of
the universe is moving past him, how much he is stationary relative to and
how much is moving away is another question. All that has happened is that
there are different proportions for each

In the nanosecond prior to his taking his foot off the gas pedal he
sees what had appeared, prior to take off, a seemingly 'fixed'
firmament *appearing* to be flashing past him at close to the speed of
light and although he *knows*, having experienced a tremendous force
of acceleration during take off, that prior to removing his foot from
the gas pedal *he* was moving

No .. he knows he was ACCERLATING. That means there was a change in how
much he was moving. But whetehr or not he ends up in a state of movment in
some particular direction, he cannot tell. It all depeends on what frame of
reference you use for deciding what is 'stationary'

but a nanosecond later insists that he
is *not* moving?

He would insist that relative to his own iFoR he is not .. he would insist
that relative to the planet he took of from he his. He has any of a
infinite number of velocities, depending on how you measure it

In that previous nanosecond he was conducting an internal dynamic
experiment which proved, as he suspected, that his was *not* an
inertial reference frame - that his ship was in fact accelerating but
a fraction of a second later he concludes that, irrespective of that
period of acceleration, he has come to a stop?

In his iFoR .. yes

If, as some people suggest, he is of the opinion that he does not
start moving following ignition but that it is the earth that is
dropping away from him he would be fully justified in screaming that
the sky is falling.

He would say that he changed velocity after ignition, and the earth did not.
That is all he is justified in saying

Why do some people continue to insist that the traveler cannot apply
logic and realise that millions of people are not coming out of the
grave?

Because it DOES NOT MATTER what he thinks.

That he does *not* possess the power of life over death either
for people back on the planet or the stars themselves?

He doesn't

I am of the opinion that this is what they were taught and, in
accordance with that 'education' system, have lost, or never
possessed, the ability to be able to think for themselves.

That would be you, I gues.

In response to one of my postings a Professor of Physics at a major
Asian University wrote that whilst he could not agree with the
argument I had put forward at least it had made him *think*. What more
could one ask?

For you to do some thinking as well .. you are locked into your particular
view and are unwilling to look at other points of view.

Your ignoring of posts, from me an others, shows your closed-mindedness on
the subject. You ignore those who do not agree with you and then hope to be
proved right from a consensus of those who remain.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Twin paradox revisited ll
    ... Yeup ... the *universe* is 'moving closer' and the rest of the universe is ... 'moving away' from him. ... you cannot change velocity without acceleration. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Twin paradox revisited ll
    ... uniform velocity *without reference to external information* i.e. on ... traveler can see the stars and the planets rushing past him. ... Having experienced the force of acceleration as he takes off from the ... is moving - not him. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Twin paradox revisited ll
    ... that as Mike points out - when the traveler accelerates ... moving but that he is at rest and it is the universe that is moving ... of acceleration during take off, that prior to removing his foot from ... If you consider twin B his view, of the space surrounding him, is ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Rotating universe.
    ... Suppose that this universe is a giant 4D circle/sphere like thing. ... Acceleration, linear and angular, is an absolutely measurable ... observable in hermetic isolation - mechanical gyroscope, ... is on the opposite side of space is not moving and that which is ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Twin paradox revisited ll
    ... uniform velocity *without reference to external information* i.e. on ... traveler can see the stars and the planets rushing past him. ... Having experienced the force of acceleration as he takes off from the ... is moving - not him. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)