Re: Twin paradox revisited ll

"bill" <cosmosco@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1185843387.491658.9460@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jul 30, 10:40 pm, "papar...@xxxxxxxxx" <papar...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 29 jul, 23:53, bill <cosmo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jul 30, 12:02 pm, "papar...@xxxxxxxxx" <papar...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 29 jul, 20:07, bill <cosmo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jul 30, 4:03 am, Mike Fontenot <mlf...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You are missing the point of my original posting which was that in the
correspondence 10 years ago and now in Mike's posting the traveler
determines that his twin appears to be aging at a slower rate than he
is thus he concludes that this is *physically, meaningfully, really*
taking place; that as Mike points out - when the traveler accelerates
during his return trip his sister's aging rate is *reversed*.

In accordance with that concept - the traveler truly believes that
during his period of acceleration the earth is *physically* spinning
backwards and is orbiting the sun in the opposite direction; that
millions of people have come back to life all because he has hit the
gas pedal.

This must give the traveler a *real* power of Godlike omnipotence -
the power of life over death and the ability to eliminate millions of
people by making them go back into the womb and to negate their
conception.

He can also 'cause' the galaxy to spin in the opposite direction;
reverse its direction of travel toward Virgo and bring about the
creation and destruction of millions of planets and stars.

One response to this discussion was that the traveler's actions - his
direction or rate of travel and his pressure upon, or release of, the
gas pedal - can have *no* physical effect on the earth or his sister
or on every galaxy in the entire universe and I tend to agree.

Any 'law' that insists otherwise is asinine.

The traveler is sitting in his ship on the launch pad. He hears the
command 'ignition'. He sees voluminous clouds of smoke and flames and
feels himself being pushed back into his seat. He continues to
accelerate and, as he does so, he sees, out his front window, that
section of the universe *appearing* to accelerate toward him and, via
his rear-view mirror, the rest of the universe, including the earth,
*appearing* to accelerate away from him.

He takes his foot off the gas pedal and at that very instant,
according to some posters, he is of the opinion that he is no longer
moving but that he is at rest and it is the universe that is moving
past him!

In the nanosecond prior to his taking his foot off the gas pedal he
sees what had appeared, prior to take off, a seemingly 'fixed'
firmament *appearing* to be flashing past him at close to the speed of
light and although he *knows*, having experienced a tremendous force
of acceleration during take off, that prior to removing his foot from
the gas pedal *he* was moving but a nanosecond later insists that he
is *not* moving?

In that previous nanosecond he was conducting an internal dynamic
experiment which proved, as he suspected, that his was *not* an
inertial reference frame - that his ship was in fact accelerating but
a fraction of a second later he concludes that, irrespective of that
period of acceleration, he has come to a stop?

If, as some people suggest, he is of the opinion that he does not
start moving following ignition but that it is the earth that is
dropping away from him he would be fully justified in screaming that
the sky is falling.

Why do some people continue to insist that the traveler cannot apply
logic and realise that millions of people are not coming out of the
grave? That he does *not* possess the power of life over death either
for people back on the planet or the stars themselves?

I am of the opinion that this is what they were taught and, in
accordance with that 'education' system, have lost, or never
possessed, the ability to be able to think for themselves.

In response to one of my postings a Professor of Physics at a major
Asian University wrote that whilst he could not agree with the
argument I had put forward at least it had made him *think*. What more
could one ask?

Bill

In any physical experiment, the observer measurements are bound by the
instruments and frames of reference. In the twin's thought experiment,
acceleration is not needed to explain the result (a simple x-t diagram
will make everything quite clear). Of course, acceleration and braking
will help both twins to determine who is really making the travel, but
has nothing to do with the clocks reading different when the travel
ends.
If you consider twin B his view, of the space surrounding him, is
quite distorted (both in shape and in color or frequency). So actually
his view of the Earth back situation would be very different of the
view a person has on a train at 100 km/h.
Knowing SR would help him to determine, theoretically, what is going
on with his twin (in the same way we may deduce the events of both
twins along the time line).
But the main point is that both twins are receiving information from
all sources at a speed c, which is independent of the direction and
speed of the frame of reference of the source and that, together with
the frame relativistic speed produce these "funny" but very logical
results.

Miguel Rios

I would very much appreciate a straight answer to the question - does
the traveler truly believe that his twin is *physically* ageing at a
*faster* rate than himself or that they are growing younger and that
the earth's axial spin and orbit of the sun has *physically* reversed?

How would you know WHAT the traveller believes .. that is a question of
psychology, not physics

NOTE: there is NO reversal of earth orbit.


.

Relevant Pages

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