Re: Do muons prove SRT ?

"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:7fa6c8c6-bf7c-49a7-b051-d6498038036b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Nov 20, 6:12 pm, bz <bz+...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Sue..." <suzysewns...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
innews:cca2e7d4-f79d-45f5-afde-1ad4c4396b58@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
:

.... We don't know enough about
why the atmosphere approximates an inertial ether for the
muon to say why its lifetime is speed dependent in
accordance with kinematics.

I suspect it is for the same reason that the half life of any short
lived particle is extended by moving at a high velocity.

A high velocity with respect to what object ?

With respect to the inertial Frame of Reference that contains the clock
measuring the half life of the particle which is moving wrt that frame.

Pick one. How about wrt the earth.


What is the "same reaon" for any short lived particle.

I didn't say "same reaon", I said "same reason".

The one that you don't like. The one with the [as you like to call them]
'funny clocks'.
The one that WORKS.

Take 50 atoms of 215Po (half life 0.008s), strip off an electron.
stick them in a magnetic field, put an AC electric field.
Do everything to accelerate them to high velocity EXCEPT keep their speed
low wrt the lab, say 0.0001 c. Measure their lifetime.

Take another 50 atoms, do the same thing but accelerate them to .1 c
Measure their lifetime.

You can use a mass spec to get the atoms.
You can pick them out, one at a time.
You can accelerate them to the chosen velocity [use a computer to randomly
select the exact velocity on a double blind basis] Measure the life of
each 215Po atom.

Or pick something with a longer half life, if you pref ere
216Po has 0.16s and 218Po has 3.05 mins.

You will find that the electric and magnetic fields make no significant
difference in the lifetime. You will find that the SPEED wrt the lab does
make a difference in the longevity.

Please be specific and note that E,D,B and H are in
huge letters on relevant text:
"Dielectric and magnetic media"
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/lectures.html

Yep. doesn't matter to me if time is 't' or T or Tau.
What matters is the form of the equation, and the meaning of the symbols
used in the equation.

Find an exception!

I don't know your statment to be true and I don't see
how any muon behavior could support or refute SR's
summary statement:

<< in reality there is not the least incompatibility
between the principle of relativity and the law of
propagation of light >>
http://www.bartleby.com/173/7.html

I have never claimed muon's behavior supports or refutes that statement.

.....

This has nothing to do with why high speed muons live longer than the
slow ones.

Decay of the muon is the probe and air is "nearby nuclei"?

The article you cited on mSR uses muons to probe materials in ways similar
to how NMR and ESR use nuclei and electrons.

Do you read what you cite or just pick 'interesting looking google hits'
and toss them into the thread to see what happens?

Are you suggesting the air surrounding the muon can be ignored ?

Which muons? Did you drop back to those created in our atmosphere by
cosmic rays? I thought you were interested in the mSR article you cited.
It was YOUR citation.


These pages would suggest it is the kinetic energy of
the muon that agrees with General Relativity, not
Special Relativity.

I don't really care if SR or GR is used. What I care about is the results.
Moving (wrt us and our clocks) muons live longer than stationary ones.
That is what we observe. The lifetime can be predicted using SR or GR and
the same numbers are found. The numbers match our observations.

http://www.bartleby.com/173/16.html

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Physics/8-13-14Fall-2004-Spring-2005/6300
0746-FBA8-47E1-8600-78EAC7486FB5/0/jlexp14.pdf

The kinetic energy is calulated wrt the air.

So? The air tends to be close to stationary (as far as relativistic speeds
are concerned) wrt the earth.

High speed muons, stored in storage rings, live longer than their
stationary brothers.

I don't know we have ever seen a stationary muon in a
storage ring. THey spiral into the walls if they deviate
from 0.994 times the speed of light.

When they hit the wall they are stationary.

I didn't say that the stationary brothers were in the storage ring, but a
'storage ring' can be designed to operate at a different speed. Or the
muons can be kept out of the storage ring, but subjected to similar
strength magnetic and electric fields.



Their lifetimes are proportional to their speed, NOT to the strength of
the magnetic or electric fields used to imprison them.

If you increase the speed to 0.996 c, the life becomes shorter
than 0.994 c That is not a *proportional* relationship.

As long as you keep them moving at 0.996 c, they live longer.

If you STOP them by running them into the wall, then they are no longer
moving at 0.996 c.

Of course they decay quicker if you stop them.

There is no reason that they can not be stored in a storage ring designed
for 0.998c. If they are, they live even longer.



--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

bz+spr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap
.

Relevant Pages

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