Re: The real twin paradox.


"colp" <colp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:45e50819-65f6-46a3-a821-5c3698dd146a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Nov 21, 11:40 pm, "Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvandemoor...@ThankS-NO-
SperM.hotmail.com> wrote:
"colp" <c...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
messagenews:06b84031-18aa-4644-bfb7-43f49f46ae6a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
m...
This thought experiment is like the classic twin paradox, but in this
expirement both twins leave earth and travel symmetric return trips in
opposite directions.

Since the paths taken by the twins in this experiment are symmetric,
they must be the same age when they meet on their return to earth.

In this experiment the twins maintain constant observation of each
other's clocks, from when they depart until they return and find that
their clocks tell the same time.

Special relativity says that each twin must observe that the other's
clock is running slow, and at no time does special relativity allow
for an observation which shows that the other clock is running fast.

No, special relativity says much more precise than that
"moving clocks" are running slow.

The Lorentz-Fitzgerald transform is more precise that my description,
but that doesn't mean that my description is wrong.


It says something about intertial observers who measure
times between ticks on remote, moving clocks.

When your two clocks fly apart, each clock will measure
this time to be longer and conclude that the other clock
is "running slower".
While clock A is coasting, according to clock A, each
tick on clock A is simultaneous with some tick on clock B
with a smaller time value.
While clock B is coasting, according to clock B, each
tick on clock B is simultaneous with some tick on clock A
with a smaller time value.

Yes, that is the standard theory.


After clock A has made its turnaround, it has shifted to
another inertial frame, in which according to clock A, each
tick on clock A is simultaneous with some tick on clock B
with a larger time value.
After clock B has made its turnaround, it has shifted to
another inertial frame, in which according to clock B, each
tick on clock B is simultaneous with some tick on clock A
with a larger time value.

Wrong. The other clock tick is still observed to have a smaller time
value.
This is because in the Lorentz-Fitzgerald transform the relative
velocity term is squared, making the the issue of the clocks
separating vs the clocks approaching irrelevant to the amount of time
dilation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

SR has no answer to your thought experiment. The reason is precisely as you
described. However, IRT can explain your thought experiments as follows:
1. Before the twins are accelerated away they are in the same state of
absolute motion. Therefore their clocks are running at the same rate.
2. After the twins accelerated away they changed their state of absolute
motion compared to before they were accelerated. However, they remain in the
same state of absolute motion because they accelerated identically.
Therefore their clock rates remain the same.
3. After the turn around they maintain the same state of absolute motion
because they turn around identically. Therefore their clock rates remain the
same.
4. After decelerated they maintain the same state of absolute motion because
they decelerated identically. Therefore their clock rates remain the same
after they are reunited.

The above explanation is incorporated into a new theory of relativity called
IRT (Improved Relativity Theory). IRT includes SRT as a subset. However,
unlike SRT the equations of IRT are valid in all environments, including
gravity. Also IRT has an unlimited domain of applicability. Therefore it is
valid for use to replace GRT in cosmology applications. IRT is described in
a paper entitled "Improved Relativity Theory and Doppler Theory of Gravity"
in my website:
http://www.geocities.com/kn_seto/index.htm

Ken Seto


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: ROTFLOL....SRians dont understand SR.
    ... Mechanics gives rise to a new theory of relativity called IRT. ... an earth about 10 parsecs from the center. ... already adjusted the earth clock to beat at a non-gravitational rate ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: [RFC][PATCH] Experimental enhanced NTP error accounting patch
    ... The ntp code provides the time update per tick: ... That's all the clock code needs from the ntp code (the details of its ... To keep timeofday the same after changing the multiplier we also have to ...
    (Linux-Kernel)
  • Re: Time dilation
    ... an Earth clock as it leaves Earth, travels to a point a fixed distance, ... With telemetry each tick could be uniquely identified. ... The Earth observer measures the time for the 2 way trip as ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Is Lorentz contraction a real process
    ... >> slowly, by a very small amount, than a precisely similar clock ... > its tick rate, due to their different PERSPECTIVES. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Uncle assAl: (SR) Lorentz t, x = Intervals
    ... So you have one clock B and one clock C, both moving inertially, where ... > During acceleration from rest, clock A intercepts n waves corresponding ... > already moving in the inertial frame that A accelerates into, ... Draw lines from every tick from the source ...
    (sci.physics)