Re: The real real twin paradox.

On Dec 1, 7:33 pm, Bryan Olson <fakeaddr...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
colp wrote:
Bryan Olson wrote:
First we showed you were wrong on what SR says because you forgot
to account for the change of frames.

Wrong. SR has nothing to say about what happens when frames change.

Special relativity (SR) (aka the special theory of relativity) is the
physical theory of measurement in inertial frames of reference
proposed in 1905 by Albert Einstein in his article "On the
Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

Because you say so? The very page you cite says:

Special relativity does not account for gravity, but it
can deal with accelerations.

Why not *learn* from that article?

Can it teach me how to account for the reversal of time dilation in
the experiment described in the OP?


Then you changed it:

Relativity of simultaneity is not relevant because the paradox
can be demonstrated from a single frame of reference (the
outgoing leg) which has spatial and tempoaral symmetry with
the inbound leg.
Message-ID:
a28782bb-0721-4972-95e7-4f266b581...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That is not a change from my position that paradoxes are not limited
to observations made from single inertial frames.

Maintain a single frame of reference, as you said one could in
that quote, there's no paradox.

The paradox is that the turnarounds do not happen simultaneously from
the FOR of a twin, even though the journeys are symmetric with respect
to the Earth. You'll probably say that this is not a paradox but is
simply a consequence of relativity. There's probably not much point in
disputing this.

Consider multiple frames and
the SR theory of how distinct frames differ, and again, no
paradox.

The paradox remains because relativity does not give a reasonable
model of how the time dilation that a twin observes can be reconciled
with the twins seeing that same time at the end of the experiment.

SR keeps turning out consistent,

It can't be consistent with reality unless the time dilation is
reversed somehow.

so you keep changing
your story.

I attempted to show that a paradox could be shown in a single inertial
FOR. The paradox isn't shown convincingly because it can be described
as a peculiarity of relativity. The original paradox remains.


When we consider SR's treatment of different frames, it's
not relevant because your paradox can use only one.

Wrong. Paradoxes are not limited to observations made within single
frames.

When SR
shows everything works in any one frame, then your paradox
is not "limited to observations made from single inertial
frames."

It wasn't limited to single frames in the OP and it wasn't an issue
then.


Relativity has the story straight.

Only if you take it on faith that the time dilation of the inertial
frames is compensated for by acceleration & deceleration in the
experiment.
.

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