Re: GPS CLOCK PARADOX

"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:k40875-623.ln1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In sci.physics.relativity, Randy Poe
<poespam-trap@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote
on Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:42:33 -0800 (PST)
<bbd2c968-10a2-4310-8cb5-9edac2e950cd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
On Jan 30, 11:27 am, "Ockham" <m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
messagenews:l2d675-gfp.ln1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| In sci.physics.relativity, Jeckyl
| <no...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
| wrote
| on Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:28:28 +1100
| <13q0kaft9d71...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
| > "Ockham" <m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
| >news:SAXnj.14454$3m6.7071@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| >>
| >> "snapdragon31" <snapdrago...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
|
>>news:dc482e20-b4df-43ff-a84e-70909a0b93b2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
| >> On Jan 29, 8:54 pm, Randy Poe <poespam-t...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
| >>> On Jan 29, 8:14 pm, HW@....(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
| >>>
| >>> > According to relativists, GPS clocks GAIN 38us per day on the
ground
| >>> > clock.
| >>> > That is due to two components, 45us for gravity and -7us for
relative
| >>> > speed.
| >>>
| >>> > Accordingly, an observer (OO) in GPS orbit would see the GC
LOSING
52us
| >>> > per
| >>> > day.
| >>>
| >>> > After one year, the OO would calculate that the OC was about
19ms
ahead
| >>> > of the
| >>> > GC.
| >>> > However, the GO would calculate that his GC was only 13ms
behind.
| >>>
| >>> > What happens when the clocks are reunited?
| >>> > Who is right?
| >>>
| >>> Two people drive different routes from city A to
| >>> city B. When they are reunited, one odometer reads
| >>> 220 km and the other reads 230 km. Which one is
| >>> right?
| >>>
| >>> - Randy
| >>
| >> | According to relativity, both odometer readings are wrong. They
do
| >> | not represent the true distance of the routes travelled because
of
the
| >> | length contraction effect.
| >> | According to Newton's law, both odometer readings are right.
| >>
| >> | The GPS clock paradox is a variation of the twin paradox, so no
valid
| >> | solution.
| >>
| >> The paradox resides in the third postulate.
| >
| > Androcles .. we've told you .. there is no third postulate
|
| Yes there is; it's not usually expressed as a postulate, but
| it is a simple one:
|
| - If a TWLS be conducted between a source and a moving mirror,
| then the time taken (as observed by the source) of the
| light beam from source to mirror and back to source is
| exactly twice that of the time taken from source to
| mirror. In other words, t_AB = t_BA.

Not true, the reflected beam will be doppler shifted.

Yes, both wavelength and frequency experience a doppler shift.

Only in SR (though both have been observed). In Newtonian
math the frequency changes as per the Doppler, but the
wavelength is unaltered.

It depends on who is moving relative to the medium (assuming we are talking
about doppler shifting of waves in a medium) .. the source or the observer.

In ballistic theory, there aren't really any waves in a medium (so how
*does* ballistic theory account for the wave-like behaviour of light?)


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: "How Does Light Know How Fast to Travel?"
    ... Either the source or the observer may be in motion. ... You will observe the SAME Doppler effect ... medium and again when the sound waves leave the medium. ... the observer a second Doppler shift would take place. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: GPS CLOCK PARADOX
    ... both wavelength and frequency experience a doppler shift. ... It depends on who is moving relative to the medium (assuming we are ... about doppler shifting of waves in a medium) .. ... observer. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Time dilation
    ... ON TIME DILATION AND DOPPLER TIME ... We examine time dilation and find it leads to an unforgiving ... Einstein perceived the differen ce of the clock readings in his ... of time each twin is an observer is equal to the time he is observed. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • to androcles
    ... >> source depends on the speed of the source and observer. ... > Doppler). ... or the doppler shift would have shown up in MMX. ... Beda: ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: SCIENTIFIC METHOD
    ... >We examine time dilation and find it leads to an unforgiving ... >examining Doppler time we find it has none of these deficiencies. ... >immediate perception by the public was that he meant if a clock was ... >of time each twin is an observer is equal to the time he is observed. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
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