Re: NASA's astonishing evidence that c is not constant: The pioneer anomaly

Dear harry:

On Feb 11, 7:57 am, "harry" <harald.vanlintelButNotT...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
"N:dlzcD:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dl...@xxxxxxx> wrote in messagenews:gWXrj.46366$Wt7.9186@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"harry" <harald.vanlintelButNotT...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"dlzc" <dl...@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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...
: So you are saying that you believe the Pioneer
: to have gotten a tiny bit smaller, and its
: "rate of time passage" to have increased with
: respect to ours, so that it can measure c
: locally?  And this effect only affects
: satellites (and maybe comets)?

No, why do you think that I believe anything
about this unsolved problem?

You seemd to think it was worth pursuing.

The anomaly is interesting for sure!

Morever, why would Pioneer become *smaller*
when c is higher?

"so that it can measure c locally".  If c is
slightly higher (compared to where we are) then
some physical change "comes over" the spacecraft.
Either the "clock rate" increases to maintain a
constant size, or the size changes.  Since the
"clock rate" is in agreement with "signal round
trip time"... this leaves size change.

According to GRT the clock rate increases at
increased gravitational potential but it's an
error to assume that that implies a constant size.

GR effects have been taken out of the data. "Constant size" with
variable c seems to be contraindicated, yes. Now could we meausre the
"size" of a GPS satellite to within a few femtometers... ;>)

Anyway, what do you think that the local clock
rate has to do with the signal round trip time?

Pioneer anomaly was onset before Jupiter was passed. So "local" would
include light-path to/from the probe, and process changes in the probe
(such as response processing time and transmitter frequency).

And why would that be relevant?

It is a consequence of variable c.

Indeed. Again: how does local clock rate show up
in this particular measurement?

2-way light path over the "affected" region, and changes in the
probe's "time rate". In addition to GR effects.

Or simply "mechanical artifact" from mundane cause.

However, you are the one who believes something
and made a claim for which I could find no basis.
Thus, my question to you remains:
How would that prove that the anomality corresponds
to a real acceleration of the space craft?

The fact that it is consistent for the two measures
(red shift and round trip time), that GR has been
separately accounted for.

See immediately below. Again: consistency with one
explanation doesn't prove that it's the right
explanation.

Not really enumerated below, so I'll attempt a response here. Occam's
razor would seem to apply. An effect that was onset by the time
Pioneer reached / passed Jupiter. An effect that Cassini did not
suffer. An effect that requires "new physics" vs. one that says
"mechanical defect". Consistency with one explanation may be all we
can get.

The effect is very similar, at least qualitatively.
Did anyone take the time to verify the equations?

: Anderson was very thorough.

Where did he verify the equations of the article that
the OP referred to?  I'm interested to read it! :-)

The OP refered to an article that listed "mysteries".

This discussion relates to the following paper that the
OP referred to:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0701/0701130.pdf
the title of which is the title of this thread.
A strange title and of course an "anomaly".

But no longer unknown, not an anomaly in GR, and completely described
by Anderson... the same Anderson that does still call the Pioneer
effect an anomaly.

One of those mysteries was anomalous boosting of
satellites / probes that use a gravitational
slingshot.  Anderson did not "verify the equations"
of people that did not do thorough research or did
not know GR.
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0608087
..."anomalous boosting"

Interesting!

Yes, darn it. GR shown to be a powerful tool yet again. Imagine
that.

David A. Smith
.

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