Re: Twin paradox with live webcams

On Feb 12, 10:06 pm, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 12, 3:48 pm, Ian Noble <fr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:29:14 -0800 (PST), Pentcho Valev

<pva...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 12, 3:55 pm, Tom Roberts <tjroberts...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Albertito wrote:
[...]

Your lack of logic is appalling. At the end, with the twins back
together, the fact that the webcam and direct observation agree places
no constraint that the two twins be the same age. One could be an old
graybeard and one a youth, and as long as the two webcams agree with the
direct view there's no problem.

And watching the webcam throughout the trip does not help -- the youth
can watch his twin growing older at a rate faster than he himself does,
and there's no contradiction or problem.

Hint: If you think you have found a contradiction in SR, check your
premises and your logic, because you are wrong. SR has been PROVED to be
as self-consistent as is Euclidean geometry, and as self-consistent as
is real analysis. EVERY claim around here to have "disproved relativity"
has been shown to be invalid by elementary means; yours is no different.

Tom Roberts

Bravo Roberts bravo Tom bravo Albert Einstein of our generation
(Hawking is no longer the Albert Einstein of our generation)! Special
relativity is even more self-consistent that other theories because it
is the only theory that can explain how criminal Einsteinians can trap
a long train inside a short tunnel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSRIyDfo_mY&mode=related&search=

and also a 80m long pole inside a 40m long barn:

http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/barn_pole.html
"These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors
at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a
switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in
the barn....

80m at rest. Less than 40m when it's moving, and therefore short
enough to fit completely in the barn, no problem.

So, as the pole passes through the barn, there is an
instant when it is completely within the barn.

An observer riding on the pole disagrees that such an instance exists.
As far as he's concerned, the pole is indeed 80m long, is clearly
longer than the barn, and can't possibly fit. But then, to him it
doesn't need to.

At that instant, you
close both doors simultaneously, with your switch.

The observer riding on the pole disagrees that the two doors close
simultaneously. He sees the far door close before the pole reaches
it, then reopen to let it through, then the near door close once the
pole has passed.

Of course, you open
them again pretty quickly, but at least momentarily you had the
contracted pole shut up in your barn."

That's your view. The observer riding on the pole disagrees. Neither
of you is more "right" than the other.

Thanks to everyone for continuing this endless, nightmarish debate. At
least the 18 posts serve to help create the Global Brain, which is
formed via any communication.

And #19 furthers it even more.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: SR cannot determine Contraction
    ... frame without hitting the pole. ... The simultaneity of the doors closing ... In the frame in which the barn and the ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: SR cannot determine Contraction
    ... not shorter than the barn, and you measure it as such. ... If you marked both ends of a pole with light beams, ... nn attempt to close the doors simulataneously in the barn ... of physics. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Twin paradox with live webcams
    ... no constraint that the two twins be the same age. ... And watching the webcam throughout the trip does not help -- the youth ... and also a 80m long pole inside a 40m long barn: ... You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: On the physicality of length contraction
    ... physical accounts of what's going on, between the two frames. ... the barn, and the doors are shut simultaneously. ... the barn doors is experimentally verified in both frames. ... deny the claim the the pole was really shorter. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: On the physicality of length contraction
    ... physical accounts of what's going on, between the two frames. ... the barn, and the doors are shut simultaneously. ... the barn doors is experimentally verified in both frames. ... deny the claim the the pole was really shorter. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
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