Re: Circular motion in SR

On Mar 27, 12:09 am, rbwinn <rbwi...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 26, 9:39�am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Mar 26, 7:23�am, rbwinn <rbwi...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 25, 6:19�am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

� � �My question is, has science ever considered the orbit of Mercury
the way I do, with the distances the same from either frame of
reference, but with the clock on Mercury running slower?

BOTH are true. The distance is different as measured from Mercury, AND
the clock rate on Mercury is different.
You are having difficulty understanding what SR really says.

I know exactly what Special Relativity says.

That certainly isn't obvious.

�You are either having
difficulty understanding my question or are deliberately pretending
not to understand. �But anyway, I now recall the answer. �Einstein
thought he had resolved the distance contraction when he thought of
relativity of time.

I don't know where you got that impression. What comic book did you
derive that information from?

�A few years later another scientist showed
Einstein that there was still a distance contraction in his
interpretation of the Lorentz equations.

Umm. The distance contraction is in his original paper, explicitly
noted. Where did you think Einstein missed what he wrote himself?

If you say so.  The only thing I ever read by Einstein was his book
Relativity, the Special and General Theories.
 The story about some
scientist convincing Einstein that there was a distance contraction
was in the first book I ever read about relativity.  The author of the
book was named Lincoln Barnett.  I do not remember the title of the
book.

I suggest you do a little more reading. You might want to read Pais's
biography perhaps.


Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?

I was talking about the distance contraction.  There is no distance
contraction.

Sure there is. It's been measured. Did you think that all this
relativity stuff was just an unconfirmed GUESS?




That is wonderful, but there is always that distance contraction.
Distances do not really contract the way the Lorentz equations show.

Sure they do. It's been *measured*. I already told you that.

Well, I am pretty gullible.  But I never have believed in a distance
contraction.  I am not that gullible.


You are also ignorant of experimental measurements. It would help if
you would brief yourself on what's been confirmed.





as far as anything
scientists on this earth are ever going to do,

If you have a different theory and can calculate where your theory
predicts something measurable that is different than what relativity
says, and you can specify the size of the difference in a particular
circumstance, then put that forward and scientists will be eager to do
an experimental test to see if you're right. NB: You must show your
work.

I already showed my work.

� � � � � � � � � �x'=x-vt
� � � � � � � � � �y'=y
� � � � � � � � � �z'=z
� � � � � � � � � � t'=t

� � � � � � � � � �x=ct
� � � � � � � � � �x'=cn'
� � � � � � � � � �n'=t(1-v/c)

I'm sorry, so where is the "can calculate where your theory predicts
something measurable that is different than what relativity says, and
you can specify the size of the difference in a particular
circumstance"? Perhaps you missed that part?

Well, then?


� � �So where are all the eager scientists? �There were eager
scientists when I was making mistakes in my mathematics. �Now that I
am not, they have all disappeared.

so they are going to
enforce their equations and make certain they are mever questioned
because the government gives them money to understand the equations.

No, that's not what the government gives them money to do. Geez.

Scientists are like lawyers. �So why do you think there are lawyers?
To stop crime? �If there was no crime, why would lawyers even exist?
Lawyers are there to increase crime so that more money can be made by
lawyers.

Ah. I see. And welders are there to do bad welds so that more welders
are required to fix the bad welds, and instead they do more bad welds
so that more money can be made by welders doing bad welds.

Well, welders actually do some work.  If a welder makes bad welds, he
gets fired.

Exactly. So do scientists. If they do bad work, they get fired.
Scientists work too. Most of them work longer hours than welders and
most of them get paid less than welders for that. The average post-doc
researcher makes about $30k a year and works between 75 and 90 hours a
week. That works out to $7.50/hr. Still think it's a cushy job.


While you're at it, why don't you malign nursing by telling them
they're there to make more people sick to make more demand for nurses,
and malign car mechanics by telling them they're there to break cars
so that there will be more demand for car mechanics, and malign
accountants by telling them they are there to lose money so that there
will be more demand for accountants?

I did not really see the need for it, but now that you mention nurses,
several have gone to prison in my lifetime for killing patients.  Why
do you suppose they do that?  Then my friend took his car to a
mechanic for some work after replacing parts on his brakes.  The
mechanic told him that the brake parts he had just replaced needed
replacing because they were worn.  Now that you mention it,
accountants who go to prison for embezzlement are usually replaced by
other accountants.

So everyone is dishonorable except for welders.
So why aren't you polluting accounting newsgroups and nursing
newsgroups and auto mechanic newsgroups telling them that they are all
wasting your money, sapping the economy, and you know better than they
do what they should be doing?


Everybody's out to cheat you and obfuscate the truth for you, aren't
they? And they're watching you, too, just in case you show signs of
getting wise to them. And then they'll come and start taking things
from you, all dressed up with fake documents like "repossession
orders" and "court summons". And if you didn't keep your shotgun
loaded, they'd take you out one night while you're watching game
shows.

Well you missed on that one.  I do not have any guns.  I have never
bought anything on credit.  When I see a court summons with my name on
it I see it as an opportunity to talk to lawyers in court, one of my
favorite things in the whole world.  As far as everyone being out to
cheat me, it would not make any difference to me.  I would not do
things different if they were.





What would happen if people were to begin to understand that the
equations scientists use are not the all-explaining answers that
scientists represent them to be?
Robert B. Winn

They know that already. That's why folks are still doing research. If
we thought the work was done, everyone would find more lucrative jobs
than what they're doing now.

Folks are doing research because they get government grants to do
research.

Uh, no. How do you imagine it happens? You think the government says:
"OK we got a couple hundred million here for the taking? Who wants
some? Line up here. Those who are looking for work can do research for
the government." Is that what you suppose?

Well. Congress appropriates research money for some very odd things.
The distance contraction has been a real cash cow for scientists over
the years.

Really? How much do you think would have been saved if it had never
been used?
And please back that claim up.

 What do you suppose would happen if a scientist went to
someone in government and said, Will you give us money to do research
because there is no distance contraction?

They'd first say, "Why do you think that?" Then you'd have to be
pretty plain with them about why you think so.

But back up a minute. Let's go back to a time BEFORE distance
contraction and ask this question:
"What do you suppose would happen if a scientists went to someone in
government and said, Will you give us money to do research because we
think there is distance contraction?"
Now, how do you suppose THAT process went? What do you think had to be
shown for that ball to get rolling?


�What are the more lucrative jobs you would get?

That's easy to answer. I'm in the private sector now. I know lots of
physicists who have opted out of academic careers and are doing their
work in the private sector. Some of my former students in fact have
done the same thing. Tom Roberts, a regular poster on this group, went
from government-sponsored research to the private sector and back to
government-sponsored research. Others have gone from private sector to
government-sponsored research back to the private sector. Others do
both simultaneously.

Well, I think we should also consider that some of these companies in
the private sector you are talking about are doing research because
they have contracts with the government.

No, sir. You don't know what you're talking about. People do research
in companies because it provides a basis for future technology
development, which leads to life-changing products that have a
competitive edge and therefore have sales potential.


You are obviously unacquainted with physics related careers and with
the physics community. Doesn't stop you from making pronouncements out
of your ignorance.

I said from the beginning that I have a high school education.  You
and other scientists have maintained steadfastly that anyone with a
college degree is a better person than a high school graduate.

No sir. That is flat wrong.
Now it is true that if someone has an interest in doing *physics*,
then people who have a college degree are better equipped and more
reliably productive in doing *physics* than people who have a high
school education. This does not make them better people, and I don't
know who told you that.
It is also true that if someone has an interest in practicing
medicine, then people who have a college degree are better equipped
and more reliably productive in doing *medicine* than people who have
a high school eduction. This does not make medical professionals
better people.
Likewise, if someone has an interest in doing welding, especially
welding for high-stakes projects where quality and workmanship are
critical, it would be unwise to hire some yahoo off the street (say, a
doctor) who walks up and says, "Looks easy." This does not make
welders better people than the yahoo (say, a doctor) off the street.

If this is your motivation, to try to take scientists down a peg just
because you've got an inferiority complex over nothing, then I suggest
you get over it.

 Ted
Kaczinski is the person who comes to my mind.  Do you know that Ted
Kaczinski's thesis about border functions is the most researched
doctorate thesis in the world?  If you count having a popular
doctorate thesis, Ted is probably the best in the world, just as you
maintain.  That is probably not much comfort to the relatives of the
people he killed.

�You think
everyone can be corporate executives if the work gets done? �Or maybe
you think everyone can work for the government, and there will be
enough money so that everyone can be paid lucrative amounts.

 Robert B. Winn

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Circular motion in SR
    ... Einstein that there was still a distance contraction in his ... then put that forward and scientists will be eager to do ... because the government gives them money to understand the equations. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Circular motion in SR
    ... Einstein that there was still a distance contraction in his ... then put that forward and scientists will be eager to do ... because the government gives them money to understand the equations. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Circular motion in SR
    ... the clock rate on Mercury is different. ... Einstein that there was still a distance contraction in his ... etc.  So how do scientists replicate the ... because the government gives them money to understand the equations. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: LIGO.
    ... Martin Hogbin wrote: ... You are falling into the trap of expecting distance to be ... scientists well known internationally in their fields of Physics, ... basis of "bad science" to projects which are now in general use. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • artificial strong hook as opposed to Felixs respondent
    ... made a call on another pay phone, lost the money, and the operator told ... for long distance calls. ... you can call long distance on one and put the coins ... When the operator cuts in and asks you to deposit money, ...
    (sci.crypt)