Re: A simple time dilation experiment


"Amuthan" <aravamuthang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Apr 8, 1:40 pm, "harry" <harald.vanlintelButNotT...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
"Amuthan" <aravamuth...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Apr 7, 7:42 pm, Randy Poe <poespam-t...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:44 pm, Amuthan <aravamuth...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all,
Please consider the following experiment

S ---------> D

S is a muon source emits 10000000000 muons every second with speed
of
300km/sec towards detector

Do you mean a number slightly less than 300 km/sec?

No I meant exactly 300 k/sec

Is this source stationary with respect to the detector?

Yes I assume stationary source with respect to the detector

Case 1: As per relativity the detector count plot will show a fixed
value

Nothing to do with relativity. Has to do with
the definition of velocity. If you emit particles
at a constant rate and the same velocity, they
will arrive at the detector at the same rate.

(with random variation with zero average)

Why would there be variations?>

Since Muon lives short time (half life 1.56 microseconds) we cannot
exactly say weather it will reach the detector or not. We can only
predict the probability of reaching. So there will be random change in
the count

Case 2: If the plot shows oscillatory change in the count with
period
of one day, can we say relativity theory is disproved?

No, since nothing in this question has anything
to do with relativity.

Since the particle is moving, it will experience time dilation. And
number of particles reaching the detector per second slightly varies
depending on time dilation.

If we consider relativity, the particle is moving with constant speed
of 300km/sec. So no variation in time dilation and hence no change in
the count is expected.

But with respect to cosmic background the particle is moving with
varying speed anywhere between 0 to 600 km/sec (I assume earth is
moving at 300 km/sec wrt cosmic background). If the time dilation
happens wrt absolute velocity then the time dilation changes and we
can expect a systematic change in the count with period one day.

I consider this experiment as one-way equivalent of MM experiment.

Amuthan.

One-way equivalents of MMX should give nothing different, as the distant
times are set according to convention - a convention that is based on the
two-way MMX. Thus you should expect a null result.
Did you make a accurate calculations?

I have not done any calculation for MMX experiment but I have done
calculations for the experiment I have proposed.
Please consider the initial experiment
A muon source emits 10000000000 muons every second with speed of 300km/
sec towards detector that is kept 0.468 meters (if a particle travel
at 300km/sec it would take 1.56 microseconds to cover this distance)
away from the source.
Half-life of Muon is 1.56 microseconds

Simple calculation

Much too simple!

Since particle travel time is same as half-life, half of the particles
will die on the way. In other words detector will count 5000000000
particles every second.

Calculation with time dilation (without considering gravity and earth
rotation)
Since particle is moving, it will experience time dilation and live
little longer and hence the number of particles detected by the
detector will be little more than the previous result.
The detector will count 5000001733 particles per second.

Is this for a non-moving earth?

Calculation considering time dilation happens with respect absolute
rest frame
Assume earth is moving 300 km/sec
If the particle direction and earth direction is same then effective
speed of the particle with respect to the rest frame is 600 km/sec

Then the detector will count 5000006931 particles per second.

Which second, and why? Did you take into account the reduced speed (also
called "closing speed") relative to the detector, as measured in the rest
frame?

If the particle direction and earth direction is opposite then
effective speed of the particle with respect to the rest frame is 0 km/
sec and there will not be any variation due to time dilation

Then the detector will count 5000000000 particles per second.

There may be slight changes in the numbers, my idea here is, if you
consider the time dilation happens with respect to absolute rest frame
then the detector will see systematic variation in number of particles
reaching the detector every second based on absolute movement of the
lab frame and the particle.

Try again, and be very thorough. As long as you find in theory such effects,
you may assume that you overlooked something or made a calculation error!

Regards,
Harald


.

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