Re: The relativity of simultaneity

On 26 jul, 14:10, "Sue..." <suzysewns...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jul 26, 1:53 pm, papa_r...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



On 26 jul, 12:48, "Sue..." <suzysewns...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jul 26, 10:53 am, papa_r...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Finally you do not grasp the concept of relativity, which is the main
subject of the thought experiment.

<<
Einstein's relativity principle states that:

All inertial frames are totally equivalent
for the performance of all physical experiments.

In other words, it is impossible to perform a
physical experiment which differentiates in
any fundamental sense between different
inertial frames. By definition, Newton's
laws of motion take the same form in all
inertial frames. Einstein generalized this
result in his special theory of relativity by
asserting that all laws of physics take the
same form in all inertial frames. >>http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node108.html

How does the ~thought experiment~ demonstrate
that principle ?

Sue...

Miguel Rios

You always put this quote which we all agree on,

Yes... I repeat that question frequenty because
you never answer it.

Again:
<<
Einstein's relativity principle states that:

All inertial frames are totally equivalent
for the performance of all physical experiments.

In other words, it is impossible to perform a
physical experiment which differentiates in
any fundamental sense between different
inertial frames. By definition, Newton's
laws of motion take the same form in all
inertial frames. Einstein generalized this
result in his special theory of relativity by
asserting that all laws of physics take the
same form in all inertial frames. >>http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/node108.html

How does the ~thought experiment~ demonstrate
that principle ?

but you clearly do
not understand. Are you suggesting that Einstein train and track
thought experiment does not follow his own theory? Because that
thought experiment precisely indicates that both observers can detect
and agree on the simultaneity of two given events, but they will
disagree on that simultaneity if they are moving relative to the other
one.

If they disagree when relative motion is introduced
then Einstein's theory must be wrong.

So the ~thought experiment~ demonstrates the theory
is wrong and you are presenting it because you are
a model railroader or some-such?

Sue...



Miguel Rios

Well you are showing clearly now your agenda...the one of an
antirelativist. That is fine...you have the right to do what you want.

But it happens that you are wrong, regarding what Einstein and
Fitzpatrick say. And the reason is that you never read or understand
the rest of the quote (it reminds me of Seto...no matter how many
times he is corrected...there he goes again with the same mistakes).
So the answer to your question is in that very same page in the
following two sections:

"Consider a wave-like disturbance. In general, such a disturbance
propagates at a fixed velocity with respect to the medium in which the
disturbance takes place. For instance, sound waves (at S.T.P.)
propagate at 343 meters per second with respect to air. So, in the
inertial frame in which air is stationary, sound waves appear to
propagate at 343 meters per second. Sound waves appear to propagate at
a different velocity any inertial frame which is moving with respect
to the air. However, this does not violate the relativity principle,
since if the air were stationary in the second frame then sound waves
would appear to propagate at 343 meters per second in this frame as
well. In other words, exactly the same experiment (e.g., the
determination of the speed of sound relative to stationary air)
performed in two different inertial frames of reference yields exactly
the same result, in accordance with the relativity principle.

Consider, now, a wave-like disturbance which is self-regenerating, and
does not require a medium through which to propagate. The most well-
known example of such a disturbance is a light wave. Another example
is a gravity wave. According to electromagnetic theory, the speed of
propagation of a light wave through a vacuum is

c = 1 / sqrt{epsilon_0 * mu_0}=2.99729 * 10^8 meters per second
(1323)

where epsilon_0 and mu_0 are physical constants which can be evaluated
by performing two simple experiments which involve measuring the force
of attraction between two fixed changes and two fixed parallel current
carrying wires. According to the relativity principle, these
experiments must yield the same values for epsilon_0 and mu_0 in all
inertial frames. Thus, the speed of light must be the same in all
inertial frames. In fact, any disturbance which does not require a
medium to propagate through must appear to travel at the same velocity
in all inertial frames, otherwise we could differentiate inertial
frames using the apparent propagation speed of the disturbance, which
would violate the relativity principle."

Hence the key factor is that c is the same in every inertial frame,
and from that factor alone the relativity of simultaneity must appear.

If you do not understand this, then you are free to make your complain
to Drs. Einstein and Fitzpatrick.

Miguel Rios
.

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