Re: answer to YBM's bell problem

On Sep 11, 2:11�pm, YBM <ybm...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
rbwinn a �crit :





On Sep 11, 1:46 pm, YBM <ybm...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
rbwinn a crit :

On Sep 11, 11:24 am, YBM <ybm...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
...
Right. The observer in A has one clock that shows t, and the observer
in B has one clock that shows n'.
Which one : n'=t(1-v/c) or n'=t(1+v/c) ?- Hide quoted text -
Well, if you are talking about an event in B, the n' values would be
the same, and the two t times wouled be different.
Wrong : t(1-v/c) and t(1+v/c) are different except at t=0 (or if v=0).
AGAIN : which n'=t(1-v/c) or n'=t(1+v/c) do you choose ?
They are both correct. One shows where light from x'= -a is as
compared to a clock in B which shows light to be traveling at a speed
of c, and the other shows where light from x'=a is as compared to a
clock in B which shows light to be traveling at a speed of c if both
beams of light are traveling toward the origin of B.
If they are "both correct" it means that from the point of view
of B, the events "left light ray arrives at the origin of A" and
"right light ray arrives at the origine of A" have different
time coordinates
n'=a/c(1-v/c) for the right one
n'=a/c(1+v/c) for the left one
so they don't arrive on A at the same instant (let's forget
for a moment how stupid is to compare events with coordinates
build from clocks being broken first, and broken on a different
way then), so for B, the bell in A don't ring.

Sorry, but it does. �This can be proven from the fact that the bell
rings when the origin of B is a distance of vt from the origin of A.
From frame of reference B, when the origin of B is a distance of vt
from the origin of A, the bell at the origin of A rings. �That is just
what happens.

This is not what your formulas say. We now have two different
theories from you, both absurd :
The one with formulas, saying that A won't ring as seen in frame B.
The one without formulas, saying that both bells will ring (as seen
� by both frames).





Sorry you don't
like where this light is, YBM. The light will meet at the origin of B
at a time of n'=a/c.
Now getting back to the two bells that ring when light from both
directions reaches them, you will notice that from frame of reference
A, the Lorentz equations show only the bell at the origin of A
ringing. According to your rules, the bell at the origin of B will
not ring.
I say both bells will ring.
????!!!!! You'd better think before writing such absurdities...

Explain how the Lorentz equation show the light turning on the bell at
the origin of B as seen by an observer in A. �According to relativity
of simultaneity, the rays of light are not emitted simultaneously in
B. �They do not reach the origin of B at the same time. �By your own
logic, the bell at the origin of B will not ring.

right. The absurdity is "both bells will ring". BTW, explaining why
it is absurd to say that the ring at the origin of B will ring is
not a job for a physicist but for a physician (or psychiatrist).- Hide quoted text -

Well, if you scientists do not believe the Galilean transformation
equations, then there is no way to convince you that the bells ring,
but I will make one more effort. First we consider the two bells from
the frame of reference of A. Light is emitted at -a and a. the light
reaches the origin of A at t=t'=a/c, and the bell at the origin of A
rings. According to t'=t, the light reaches the origin of A at t'=a/c
from both directions. An observer in B using t'=t will observe the
light to reach the origin of A and ring the bell. This was the
interpretation that scientists had of the Galilean transformation
equations until 1887. It is good enough for what we are doing here.
Using t'=t, the observer in B has no way of determining that the bell
at the origin of B will ring.
Now we will consider the two frames of reference from B. The
Galilean transformation equations for this observation are

x=x'-v't'
y=y'
z=z'
t=t'

B is the frame of reference at rest and A is the frame of
reference in motion. A is moving relative to B with a velocity of
v'=(-v). So now we consider what the light does in each frame of
reference according to these equations. In B, the light from the -a
goes from x'=-a to the origin of B. The light from a goes from x'=a
to the origin of B. The light reaches the origin of B at a time of
t'=a/c, and the bell at the origin of B rings. An observer in A using
a t=t' clock will see the light from both directions reach the origin
of B at t=t'=a/c and will observe the bell in B ring, but has no means
of observing the light reach the clock at the origin of A using t=t',
so will not observe that bell to ring.
This is the same basic reasoning you are using with the Lorentz
equations. If you can prove that both bells ring from one frame of
reference with the Lorentz equations, I want to see the proof.
Otherwise, I say you are just using the same reasoning I used above
with the old interpretation of the Galilean transformation equations.
The only thing I did different was to say that A is a preferred frame
of reference when observed from A, B is a preferred frame of reference
when observed from B. In Galilean ether theory, A was always the
preferred frame of reference.
All n' does is show that from B, light is observed to meet at the
origin of B.
Robert B. Winn
.

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