Re: There is a name for what is wrong with Relativists.

Hayek schrieb:

What do you mean with "stays at rest wrt to the universe"? And how
can the twin "at rest" (?) return to the Earth if it's moving?
It is relativity, right ?

Yes, but in relativity the state of motion is defined with respect to
an inertial frame of reference, not to "the universe", which is not
an inertial frame of reference.

If you want I will say : wrt to an inertial frame of reference that does
not move wrt to the average mass distribution around it, in this case
the average mass distribution of the visible universe around it.

I.e. a local inertial frame of reference comoving with the Hubble flux.

[...]
The twin B accelerates away from the Earth, obtains 0.6 c wrt the
Earth, but is now at rest wrt the universe.

As I already explained, clocks measure the lengths of the worldlines
on which they travel. You can only compare the clock readings when the
clocks are in the same place (or sufficiently nearby to each other).

That was the question. Can the theory you adhere to, predict this, and
if yes, what does it predict ?

The theory "I adhere to" can predict this, and the prediction is that
lengths of given worldline sections do not depend on the frame of
reference you choose. Thus, the result of the experiment is the same
wether you consider the Earth being at rest or in motion.

If twin B accelerates away from Eart, obtains 0.6c wrt the Earth - how
does he come back to earth to compare his clock reading with the clock
of his brother?

Of no importance to the question.

Of considerable importance to the question. If you ask for the amount of
time elapsed for a given clock, you must specify between which events.
The question "how long is the distance" only makes sense if you specify
from where to where.

[...]
As I already explained, no clock runs faster or slower than the other.

What you are saying, now sounds more than QM, clocks only give time when
they are observed. This would mean that as soon they are separated, they
disappear in a sort of temporal mist, which suddenly clears when they
are reunited.

Where should I have written such nonsense?

Sorry to say this Jürgen, but this is a prime example of the cognitive
dissonance, this thread was started about.

I think you are a bit cognitively dissonant about what I have written.

Every clock runs at a speed of one second per second.
Locally, you are right, of course, but this is stating the obvious.

I don't know what you mean with "locally" in this context.

You should try to get into God perspective mode.

I don't know what you mean with "God perspective".

I conclude from this that you cannot locally measure the inertia you are
in.

You can *only* locally measure the inertia of your test object. I don't
know what you mean with "being in inertia".

This is also a valid argument for my interpretation : if time and
inertia were different, there would be a way to use one to measure the
other. They are both not measurable locally. Another indication they are
one and the same.

A house and a dog are different things. Thus, a house provides a method
to measure dogs? I cannot follow this kind of logic.

You can only compare the time elapsed between two given events, as
measured by different clocks that have traveled along different
worldlines between those events.

You are really well indoctrinated, no insult intended.

I just learned some physics.

MfG,
Juergen
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: twin paradox, but a symmetric one
    ... aiming to get back to earth. ... will age faster than twin B, and twin B will age faster than twin A. ... These accumulated times on clocks ... As seen from some inertial frame, one can easiliy calculate the total ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The Spin Proviso to Relativity
    ... and I say that this IS how we synchronize clocks on the Earth. ... His clocks belong to a frame that IS rotating. ... The guy can invent an inertial frame in which his two wristwatches are ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: I am Trying To Learn Relativity
    ... synchronize clocks differently. ... but you are free to synchronize the real clocks of your ... opposite directions) in an inertial frame. ... at our disposal on earth being not-quite-inertial. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Is the LT for time correct?
    ... different IRFs, one must refer to the endpoints ... Clocks go different thats proove. ... And two clocks taking the same path in an inertial frame but in opposite ... those guys made for assumptions for the inertial frame valid on earth. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Stick to the planes for now
    ... One clock flew in western direction around the earth, ... "time delation" as predicted by Einstein's theories of Relativity. ... The atomic clocks onboard the planes ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
Quantcast