Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]

On 6 ene, 11:55, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 6, 9:45 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Jan 6, 8:33 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 6, 9:12 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 6, 7:50 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 5, 3:36 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 5, 2:06 pm, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 1, 11:45 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 31 2008, 2:03 pm, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 31, 2:28 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 31, 8:55 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 31, 9:43 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 4:58 pm, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 11:42 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 10:35 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 9:44 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 8:37 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9....@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 9:32 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 8:11 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 9:00 am, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 30, 7:44 am, "Strich.9" <strich.9...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Dec 29, 5:08 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Well, let's see. Suppose you tell me how you propose to measure the
length of something without bringing anything else into the picture...
This ought to be fun...

This is really fun...

Let there be a meterstick in pure isolation from everything else in
the universe...

Now genius, tell me, does the meterstick have a defined length or not?

Let's see. You were going to tell me how you propose to measure the
length of something without bringing anything else into the picture.
Have you done that? Not yet.

Maybe I was too fast for you

Let there be a meterstick in pure isolation from everything else in
the universe...

Let's take it one by one...

Did I bring anything else into the picture? NO.
Does the entity have a length? YES.
What is its length? ONE meter.

How do you know that? Because it has "One meter" stamped on the side?
If you have a pig that has "cow" stamped on the side, is it a cow?

I don't have a pig with a cow stamp and neither do you.  I can see why
you are confused.  Your logic borders on insanity.

The question, which is really easy for normal people, is, does the
meterstick have a length?  Only insane people would argue it does not.

A meter stick has a length when it is measured at rest. It also has a
length when it is measured in motion. Those two lengths are not the
same. The fact that you have *called* it a meter stick in no way
guarantees that the length is a meter in both circumstances. And in
fact, the instruction manual that comes with the meter stick
specifically tells you under which circumstances the meter stick's
length is a meter. You HAVE read the manual, haven't you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll repeat the question stupid:

Does the stick (meterstick in this case) have a length?

I already answered the question. Please read above.

Good.  We agree that the meterstick has a length.  Since this length
exists while the stick is in isolation, then this length is the
INTRINSIC length.

Next problem...

Sorry, no. Intrinsic implies frame-independence. I've already answered
that question. Please read above.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know your answer.  You deny and affirm the existence of intirinsic
length.  What's new?

No, I deny the existence of intrinsic length, period. The fact that
you point to something that I say exists and you call it intrinsic
doesn't change anything.

If you pointed to a goat and said, "Does that thing over there exist?"
and I said, "Yes," and you then said, "There, you see, purple
zipniggels exist" -- well, that would not be an admission on my part
of the existence of purple zipniggels, would it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The liar speaks.  I'll refute this liar, and let us watch him weasel
again, and I shall refute him once more...

Let me begin with a definition:

Intrinsic - of or relating to the essential nature of a thing;
inherent.

That's a lovely definition from a dictionary of colloquial usage. Has
little to do with the definition as used in physics.

For example, here is the definition of momentum from a dictionary of
colloquial usage:
Momentum - an impelling force or strength
Note how this is not only inappropriate with the physics meaning of
the term but also *inconsistent* with it.

Let me recall that stick I have floating all by itself, in complete
isolation.  Complete isolation.  No observers.  No other sticks.  This
stick just happens to be a meterstick.

Now PD would deny this meterstick has a length.

You lie. I've already told you it has a length. More than one, in
fact. It has a length in each and every inertial reference frame. At
no time did I ever deny that it has a length. I *did* deny that it has
an intrinsic length, but you have lied about what I said.

Enough fluff.  What is the length of the meterstick in isolation?
Since you say it has many lengths, I'll leave it to your psychiatrist
to help you make up your mind and choose one :)

Why would I need to choose ONE when it has many?

And why do you lie?

PD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So in your schizophrenic reality, the isolated meterstick, devoid of
any external observer, except itself, has many lengths, but not one
of these are valid in describing the stick?

They are all valid, one per reference frame. Choose a reference frame,
and the stick has a valid length. Choose a different reference frame,
and the stick has a different valid length.

We've been through this rigmarole before.

You're right. We've been through this before. It's already been
answered.
The fact that the answer makes your eyebrows go up doesn't impel me to
repeat the answer. You may read the content in the quoted material
above for review, if you like.

(Hint: multiple reference frames does not imply multiple company for
the stick.)

 The stick is all by
itself.  What is its length?  (I'm sure you can find a reference frame
there to hold your hand.)

Ready to break free of your schizophrenia (a disease marked by the
marked difficulty to make decisions)?  Answer the question.  What is
the length of the meterstick all to itself?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We all know here in sci.physics.relativity that you will not answer
the question, though you always feign you can.  For those who would
like to help PD, here is the question (it is one of those simple
questions which the relativity religion, like all religions, falters
at):

A meterstick is in isolation.  What is its length?

Simple...and PD has answered several times that.

An object in total isolation, meaning without observers, rulers, or
clocks (in other words without a reference frame), does not have a
defined length.

Miguel Rios
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]
    ... The fact that you have *called* it a meter stick in no way ... stick just happens to be a meterstick. ... It has a length in each and every inertial reference frame. ... Since you say it has many lengths, I'll leave it to your psychiatrist ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]
    ... meterstick and then I'll tell you the length of the meterstick. ... Priceless....the guy who does not know what length is, what isolation ... When I pull the meterstick out of isolation, ... the stick has not damaged the barn. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]
    ... The fact that you have *called* it a meter stick in no way ... stick just happens to be a meterstick. ... It has a length in each and every inertial reference frame. ... Since you say it has many lengths, I'll leave it to your psychiatrist ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]
    ... The fact that you have *called* it a meter stick in no way ... stick just happens to be a meterstick. ... It has a length in each and every inertial reference frame. ... Since you say it has many lengths, I'll leave it to your psychiatrist ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Sliding Rod Experiment [PD investigates]
    ... The fact that you have *called* it a meter stick in no way ... stick just happens to be a meterstick. ... It has a length in each and every inertial reference frame. ... Since you say it has many lengths, I'll leave it to your psychiatrist ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
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