Re: Clear writing about relativity
- From: mpc755 <mpc755@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
On Jul 1, 12:05 am, doug <x...@xxxxxx> wrote:
mpc755 wrote:
On Jun 30, 7:53 pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 3:59 pm, mpc755 <mpc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 3:44 pm, mpc755 <mpc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 3:06 pm, mpc755 <mpc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 1:50 pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 12:38 pm, mpc755 <mpc...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 30, 11:17 am, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If we need to change the theory to "stationary source" theory to get
rid of the assumption that light travels at c+v and c-v in emission
theory we can change the name of it to something else.
Yes, it would make sense to give your theory its own name since it is
not emitter theory.
The star and the earth are traveling on parallel rails heading towards
and past each other.
The star fires off a photon perpendicular to the direction it is
traveling towards the other rail.
The photon is propagating away from the star at 'c'.
When the photon reaches the earth, the earth is directly across from
the star.
In the star rest frame, the photon has traveled from where the star
*is* to where the earth *is* and the photon has traveled at 'c'.
In the earth rest frame, the photon has traveled from where the star
*is* to where the earth *is* and the photon has traveled at 'c'.
No, in the earth rest frame the photon traveled from where the star
was to where the earth is. The star has moved since the photon was
emitted.
In the star rest frame, the star is directly across from the earth at
the instant the earth consumes the photon.
If the observer on the earth is looking directly across at the rail
the star is traveling on, in the star rest frame, when the photon
reaches the observer, the photon will hit the observer square in the
face and the image he sees will be of where the star *is*.
The information the photon contains will be from the past, but where
the star appears to be to the observer in the star rest frame (i.e.
where the photon has traveled from) is where the star *is*.
In other words, the photon will have traveled the shortest distance
between the rails from the star to the observer and the observer will
see an image of the star directly across from him.
In the earth rest frame, where do you believe the star is located the
instant the observer consumes the photon? Is it directly across from
the earth, still heading towards the earth, or has it passed by the
earth and where did the photon travel from and does it hit the
observer squarely in the face or to one side or the other?
This is important, so I'd like to restate it here.
Let's say every so often a number is marked along the rail the star is
traveling on.
The numbers go from 1 to 10.
Let's say the earth is traveling along a rail that is also numbered
identically from 1 to 10, but since the earth is traveling in the
opposite direction of the star, it will start at number 10, then
9,..., and so on.
What part of "Rest Frame" do you not understand?
In the rest frame of the earth the earth is not moving. You are
trying to force the earth to be moving in its own rest frame. That
makes no sense. If the earth is moving it is not at rest. In the
rest frame of the earth it is the star that is moving.
At number 4, the photon is emitted from the star.
The photon carries an image of where the star was at that point in
time. In other words, the photon carries an image of a 4.
The star passes 5 and 6 as the photon propagates away from the star at
'c'.
When the star gets to 7, the earth is directly across and at the
number 7 on its rail when the observer on the earth consumes the
photon.
The image the observer sees will be of a star illuminating the number
4 even though the image will appear to the observer as having traveled
directly across from the opposite rail.
I would like to know your interpretation of this thought experiment as
to where the Earth is when the observer consumes the photon and where
the star is when the observer consumes the photon and where the photon
traveled from.- Hide quoted text -
In the star rest frame the light hits the observer on the earth square
in the face and he sees the star right in front of him.
In your interpretation, in the earth rest frame, the light travels
from where the star was and hits the observer on the earth from the
side and the observer sees the earth off to the side of where he is
looking.
In my version of emission theory, in the earth rest frame, the light
from the star hits the observer square in the face and he sees the
star right in front of him because the light is traveling at 'c' as it
propagates away from the star.
And it is traveling at 'c' in all frames. It is not tied to any point
in three dimensional space relative to the earth or any other frames
beside the star's rest frame. The photon is propagates away from the
star at 'c'.
You really need to study some physics so you do not look so silly.
I understand you are close minded and do not understand the
implications of the light traveling outward from the source at 'c'.
It allows for the time the lightning strikes occurred at A, A', B, and
B' to have occurred at the same time when the light from the lightning
strikes reaches M and M', but this is not what you have been taught
and your closed mindedness does not allow you to think for yourself.
Yes, I understand what I am saying is not generally accepted and to
you that automatically makes it incorrect.
But in the unlikely event you can think for yourself, here is the
reason why I think my version of emitter theory is correct:
Light propagates outward from a source under constant momentum at 'c'
as if the source is stationary.
This is Emitter Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_theory
The evidence against Emitter Theory is the dual star experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Sitter_double_star_experiment
The false premise in the double star experiment is the light is
traveling at c+v and c-v for the stars.
Instead, light propagates outward from the stars in the double star
experiment as if the stars are stationary. In terms of the light, the
light propagates outward at 'c' from the "stationary" star and
everything moves relative to the "stationary" star.
Applying this to Einstein's train thought experiment and all of the
lightning strikes are determined to have occurred at the same time.
The distances do not matter, but to make the intervals easier, A, A',
B, and B' are each one light year from M and M' at the time of the
lightning strikes.
The train is moving at 1/2 the speed of light away from A and towards
B.
At the time of the lightning strikes:
A'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B'
A--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B
After eight months, A' is four light months away from A and eight
light months from M. Since the light is propagating outward at 'c' as
if A' is stationary the light reaches the Observer at M.
After eight months, B is four light months away from B' and eight
light months from M'. Since the light is propagating outward at 'c' as
if B is stationary the light reaches the Observer at M'.
Eight months after the lightning strikes occurred:
|-|-|-|-A'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B'
A-|-|-|-|--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M-|-|-|-|--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B
If we pick the date of Sept. 1, 2009 for the light from A' to reach M
and for the light from B to reach M' the observers will determine the
light from each lightning strike traveled eight light months to reach
them and each lightning strike occurred on Jan. 1, 2009.
Four months later, the light from A and B reaches M and the light from
A' and B' reaches M'. The date is Jan. 1, 2010. The Observers at M and
M' conclude that the light from the lightning strikes traveled one
light year to reach them and the lightning strikes occurred on Jan. 1,
2009.
One year after the lightning strikes occurred:
--|-|-|-|-|-A'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B'
A-|-|-|-|-|-|--|-|-|-|-|-M-|-|-|-|-|-|--|-|-|-|-|-B
Twelve months later, the light from A reaches M' and the light from B'
reaches M. The date is Jan. 1, 2011 and the Observers conclude the
light from the lightning strikes traveled two light years to reach
them and the lightning strikes occurred on Jan. 1, 2009.
Two years after the lightning strikes occurred:
--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-A'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M'-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B'
A-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-M--|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-B
(cut in half to try and avoid wrapping)
The above works for any distance between where the lightning strikes
occur and M/M' and for any speed at which the train is traveling.
.
- Follow-Ups:
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- From: doug
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- References:
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- From: Bruce Richmond
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- From: mpc755
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- From: doug
- Re: Clear writing about relativity
- Prev by Date: Androcles "mixem up his frades"
- Next by Date: Re: Clear writing about relativity
- Previous by thread: Re: Clear writing about relativity
- Next by thread: Re: Clear writing about relativity
- Index(es):
Relevant Pages
|
