Re: c+v and Sagnac

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:30:08 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123 <drosen0000@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Sep 2, 3:47 am, "Inertial" <relativ...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in messagenews:3l6s95h8b4fl37qucqogeli80sp9eugdki@xxxxxxxxxx
 In the SR analysis, the distances travelled by the
wavefronts are different, and as both rays travel at c in the inertial
frame, the time taken is not the same.  
Although this is a standard way of presenting the explanation, I
think it is a little too concise for someone who doesn't know the
field. I think sometimes a wordier explanation is clearer, especially
when the student doesn't understand some of the underlying conditions.
I will rephrase what you are saying in a less concise, but I hope
clearer, fashion.
"There is an inertial frame where the center of the Sagnac cavity
is stationary and where there is no centrifugal force on any of the
components of the cavity. In this frame, the wavelengths of the two
beams of light are different.

You're wrong already. Wavelength is absolute and invariant.

Because of Doppler shift, the wavelength
of the beam traveling against the rotation was shortened. The
corresponding frequency was increased. Because of Doppler shift, the
wavelength of the beam traveling with the rotation was lengthened. The
corresponding frequency was decreased.

The wavelengths don't change, the speeds of the rys are c+v and c-v in the
inertial frame. Therefore the frequencies of the two rays are doppler shifted
by (c+v)/c and (c-v)/c in the inertial frame.

It should be understood that "relativity" did not "cause" the
Doppler shift. The Doppler shift was caused by the free electrons in
the mirrors. The free electrons are what causes the reflectivity of
the mirror. The beam that travels against the rotation has wave fronts
that impact the electrons more frequently than the wave fronts of the
beam traveling with the rotation. So the light emitted by these
electrons has a corresponding change in frequency that corresponds to
the Doppler shift. It is this "response" the two beams that determines
the frequency of the beam. The Doppler shift is a consequence of the
laws of electrodynamics, which are themselves "Lorentz invariant."
Thus, relativity is here a short cut through the laws of
electrodynamics, not a magic formula that supercedes the laws of
electrodynamics.

This is pure garbage.

The speed of wave peaks is the same because of the relativity
principle. The circumference of the mirror are the same, since there
still is only one Sagnac cavity. Because the wavelengths of the two
beams are different, the two beams are out of phase at the exit
aperture of the Sagnac cavity. The two waves, out of phase, undergo
"beating" as do two tuning forks with different frequencies."

there is no beating. THe fringe displacement is constant for constant angular
velocity. You might be confusing this with the ring laser gyro which uses a
modulated light signal in such a way that a beat frequency occurs at constant
displacement.

I specified the frame with respect to the mirrors. I also added a
short explanation of what the mirrors are doing. Most nonscientists,
and a depressing number of scientists, don't really understand that a
mirror is an electrical device. Electrical devices because of Lorentz
invariance satisfy relativity. Relativity is simplifies the
mathematics of the problem so well, the physics ends up being hidden
in the words.

This message surpasses any of your previous crap.


Henry Wilson...www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

Einstein...World's greatest SciFi writer..
.

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