Re: Is Pauli's repulsive force fundamental?

From: Jeroen (wijnhout_at_science.uva.nl)
Date: 09/09/04 

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:04:15 +0000 (UTC)

Igor wrote:

>
>
> alfps@start.no (Alf P. Steinbach) wrote in message
> news:<413d836a.363819140@news.individual.net>...
>> * Roland Franzius:
>> >
>> > Pedro Tamirez wrote:
>> > > Hello physics world out there,
>> > >
>> > > I am a bit confused about how many fundamental forces exist.
>> > > Everybody keeps on saying that there are four fundamental forces:
>> > > gravity, strong, weak and electromagnetic. (I don't want to start any
>> > > discussion about possible unifications or additional exotic forces.)
>> > > But then there is this strange repulsive force, caused by the Pauli
>> > > exclusion principle, that two fermions with the same quantum numbers
>> > > cannot be brought together infinitely close. A repulsive force keeps
>> > > them seperated.
>> > >
>> > > Now my question is: How does this _new_ force tie in with the other
>> > > four. As no one talks of 5 fundamental forces, it somehow must be
>> > > related to the others? Or is it a fundamental force?
>>
>> The trick to keeping 4 fundamental forces is to deny that other forces
>> such e.g. inflation force, are "forces". Unfortunately that denial also
>> includes denying that gravity is a "force". So then we're down to 3...
>> :o)
>>
>>
>> > The so called repulsive exchange force of a fermion pair is a matrix
>> > element of the normal two particle potential (typically of coulomb type
>> > or something derived from it like the mean field in a thermodynamic
>> > many particle enviroment).
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned -- I'm not a scientist -- that's mumbo-jumbo.
>>
>> I once sent this very question to the SciAm "experts" answer-providing
>> service, but no reply.
>>
>> So, is the force involved one of the 4 forces, or a combination of them?
>>
>> Yes or no, please.
>>
>> If yes, which?
>
>
> The OP's question was whether the force was fundamental. The answer
> would have to be no, since it can be derived from other underlying
> factors -- namely the antisymmetric part of the wavefunction under

Why is the wavefunction anti-symmetric?: to obey the Pauli exclusion
principle. So the anti-symmetry is put in by hand, in other words, it is
fundamental. It can not be derived from anything else.

best,
Jeroen

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