Re: What is the history of relativity theory? (continuation of Poincare thread)
- From: =?unknown?q?Cl=2EMass=E9?= <toto@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:19:48 +0000 (UTC)
<juanrgonzaleza@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le message de news:
3059.217.124.69.211.1124300113.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In 1904, Poincaré stated the two basic principles of relativistic theory:
>
> "The laws of physical phenomena must be the same for a `fixed' observer as
> for an observer who has a uniform motion of translation relative to him:
Dating back to Galileo, hardly ascribable to Poincaré.
> so that we have not, and cannot possibly have, any means of discerning
> whether we are, or are not, carried along in such a motion."
The Lorentz contraction achieves this goal.
> "From all these results there must arise an entirely new kind of dynamics,
> which will be characterised above all by the rule, that no velocity can
> exceed the velocity of light."
The rule follow from the dynamics, not the other way round like in
Relativity. The Lorentz contraction is also a new kind of dynamics, while
the Relativity is a new kind of space-time transformation.
> The idea of absence of aether is not new of Einstein and probably Einstein
> learned it also from Poincaré (probably read on La Science et
> l'hypothèse).
> There is historical evidence (shown in above web document) that Einstein
> plagiarized work of others.
While there is no trace of the "theory of relativity" as such in the said
works.
> There is also historical evidence that
> Poincaré did most of the work on some topics but left the paternity to
> others.
There is no trace of the "theory of relativity" as such from others.
> It is also interesting to note that the Nobel Committee decided to award
> Einstein the price, but was objected that Poincaré was who had found
> special relativity. Nevertheless, as Poincaré passed away at that time
> Einstein was awarded the Nobel price for his work on the photoelectric
> effect. It is important to remark the diplomacy of the Nobel committee.
The price has been founded by Nobel in order to reward the people who bring
something useful to humanity. The Relativity doesn't, the photo-electric
effect does, and the motives of the Nobel jury are kept secret.
etc...
> Of course, I would acknowledge debate in this heated topic, but I WILL NOT
> REPLY noisy posts or without a minimum of basis.
You didn't give the basis yourself, that is, the writing from Poincaré or
someone else that contain the "theory of relativity" as such. That is, not
only a mathematical model, but also physical assumptions and an
interpretation. Your gave only fragmented data, that put together don't
yield a complete theory with physical predictions.
> Bold questions like, `did Poincaré write explicitly in some part the
> constancy of c on different frames?' will be not replied.
Of course, since the answer is 'no', and that closes the debate
definitively.
> Different formal systems rely on different basic premises and, therefore,
> obtain different secondary premises. Constancy of c on different frame is
> implicit in Poincaré works (it is implicit for example in the LT), and
> this is independent if Poincaré choose this like a postulate (like
> Einstein did) or considered it a derivate premise of the formal system.
Again, the Lorentz contraction *is* a different formal system with the same
equations, but it lost.
Anyway, the Lorentz contraction, followed by the Relativity of Einstein
which won because it was more predictive, is written in all history books.
It is an epitome of the difference between mathematics and physics.
Therefore, I don't see any kind of change, save for the role of Poincaré in
the *Lorentz contraction*, but here it seems Poincaré looted Lorentz. So
let's give back the Poincaré group to Poincaré, the Lorentz contraction to
Lorentz, and the Einsteins theory of relativity to Einstein, to Caesar what
belongs to Caesar, and "much ado for nothing", or like would have stated
Poincaré after La Fontaine: "La montagne a accouché d'une souris."
--
~~~~ clmasse on free F-country
Liberty, Equality, Profitability.
.
- Follow-Ups:
- References:
- Prev by Date: Re: The time it takes to emit one photon
- Next by Date: Re: Quantum Function of Mirrors
- Previous by thread: Re: What is the history of relativity theory? (continuation of Poincare thread)
- Next by thread: Re: What is the history of relativity theory? (continuation of Poincare thread)
- Index(es):
Relevant Pages
|
