Re: Where is the mass?

"Phil Gardner" <pej_dg@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:eiaqgq$snf$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

It is well established fact that the mass of a ground state hydrogen
atom is less than tha sum of the masses of the proton and electron
from which it was formed, less by the mass equivalent of the binding
energy (13.6 ev).

There are just two hypotheses that agree with the experimental
evidence:

(a) All of the mass of the atom (inclusive of the negative potential
energy) is localised in the two particles. The mass of each is reduced
by (13.6/9.387 x 10^-6)%.

(b) The negative (potential energy) mass is a separate entity external
to the particles. The mass of each of these is constant throughout the
life of the particle and any interaction with other particles.

The most explicit discussion of these that I have found in the
literature is that of Brillouin: "The actual mass of potential energy,
a correction to classical relativity", Proc. Nat. Acad. Sc. 1965; 53;
3; 475-482. He acknowledges that there is no way we can decide between
the two by experiment but argues for (b), the "assumption" that the
interaction potential energy is a separate entity from the energy of
the self fields of the particles, that its mass cannot therefore be
localised in the particles, that to dog so is at best a simplifying
assumption.

It can fairly be claimed that (a) is conceptually simpler than (b) but
almost everyone rejects it in favour of (b). If no one can devise an
experiment to decide between the two why is this so?

Consider what it would take to separate the electron and the proton...
the absorption of an outside photon of 13.6 eV is my guess.

Pretty sure that if you arrange for a naked proton to kidnap a free
electron that you will also find an "extra" 13.6 eV photon sneaking away
from the scene of the crime. Or perhaps 2 or more lower energy photons.
Protons interacting with neutral molecules might provide another
experimental test that would have the advantage of the capture elctrons
being pretty much of the same energy.

http://www.egglescliffe.org.uk/physics/astronomy/radio/radio.html

An HII region thus consists of many H ions (protons) and free
electrons. When the protons capture free electrons a continuum of
radiation is produced, as the free electrons can have any energy (their
average energy is determined by the temperature of the gas cloud). UV,
visible and IR radiation is produced as captured electrons cascade down
the H energy levels.

http://flux.aps.org/meetings/YR03/MAR03/baps/abs/S710004.html

--
David Winsemius

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