Re: = c + v (train)

From: The Ghost In The Machine (ewill_at_aurigae.athghost7038suus.net)
Date: 06/04/04 

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:28:22 GMT

In sci.physics, kenseto
<kenseto@erinet.com>
 wrote
on Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:36:48 -0400
<10buo2eb6174mdd@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
> message news:rbk3p1-i53.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> wrote
>> on Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:24:04 -0400
>> <10bpej6afue3l41@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >
>> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
>> > message news:mdduo1-dg.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> >> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> >> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> >> wrote
>> >> on Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:11:25 -0400
>> >> <10bovpftp2bndd9@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >> >
>> >> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote
> in
>> >> > message news:8ofto1-oc1.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> >> >> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> >> >> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> >> >> wrote
>> >> >> on Mon, 31 May 2004 18:21:55 -0400
>> >> >> <10bnble229sold5@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net>
> wrote
>> > in
>> >> >> > message news:25hpo1-avu.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> >> >> >> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> >> >> >> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote
>> >> >> >> on Sun, 30 May 2004 10:41:46 -0400
>> >> >> >> <10bjsaib539al7a@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net>
>> > wrote
>> >> > in
>> >> >> >> > message news:hg3no1-70t.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> >> >> >> >> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> >> >> >> >> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote
>> >> >> >> >> on Sat, 29 May 2004 08:34:15 -0400
>> >> >> >> >> <10bh0fcgq6phr18@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > "The Ghost In The Machine"
> <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net>
>> >> > wrote
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> >> > message news:5lplo1-ftr.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
>> >> >> >> >> >> In sci.physics, kenseto
>> >> >> >> >> >> <kenseto@erinet.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote
>> >> >> >> >> >> on Fri, 28 May 2004 13:58:06 -0400
>> >> >> >> >> >> <10bev2ihgiq1s04@corp.supernews.com>:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > "Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> >> > news:40B7615E.DD534483@mchsi.com...
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> kenseto wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >>
>> >> A local clock second represents a local clock second. It needs to
>> >> be converted into Universal Time.
>> >
>> > NO...a clock second in any frame will represent a specific of universal
>> > time.
>>
>> Only if one knows the velocity relative to the reference, and
>> perhaps local space warpage relative to the reference.
>
> NO you are wrong. a clock second will represent a specific interval of
> universal
> time. There is no need to know the velocity relative to the reference.

It is true that the clock interval would represent a specific
interval. What is more interesting is a *known* specific interval.

>>
>> >>
>> >> > A clock second in different frames represents different interval of
>> >> > universal time.
>> >>
>> >> Right, it's not a Universal second. I think we more or less agree
> here.
>> >
>> > That's true since we already declared that the earth clock second is
>> > a universal second.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Besides the existence of universal (absolute) time and absolute
> motion
>> > will
>> >> > enables us to unify all the forces of nature. If we stick with the SR
>> >> > assertion
>> >> > that there is no absolute time or motion then we will have eliminated
>> > the
>> >> > only viable way to unite all the forces of nature.
>> >>
>> >> The main problem is that a local clock second on Earth is different
>> >> from a local clock second on, say, the GPS satellite (by a tiny
>> >> amount).
>> >
>> > Right. In terms of universal time a ground universal second
>> > is represented by 9,792,631,770 transitions of the Cs 133 atom
>> > and a GPS universal second is represented by (9,792,631,770+4.15)
>> > transitions of the Cs 133 atom.
>>
>> On Earth.
>
> You didn't read what I said.

No, I was stating that the Cs133 definition is on Earth. That's
where the Universal Second is defined.

If one is in space 9,792,631,770 transitions of a Cs 133 atom
is not a Universal Second.

>>
>> >
>> >> Defining a Universal second doesn't solve this problem,
>> >> and in fact may exacerbate it if we're not careful (muon decay in
>> >> particular depends on local time).
>> >
>> > Sure does. The existence of universal time and motion will allow us to
>> > unify all the forces of nature. Rejecting the existence of universal
> time
>> > led us to the current mess....that there is no theory of quantum
> gravity.
>> > Do you really want to save the absurd SR assertions (that there is no
>> > absolute time and motion) at the expense of a way to the unification
>> > of physics?
>>
>> How is your system any better? At best, you've preserved SR with
>> some additional buttressing regarding the local spacetime coordinates.
>> At worst, it's completely superfluous.
>
> <sigh> SR is incomplete. It asserts reciprocity between
> relative frames where there is none. For example: The SR
> effect on the GPS clock is 7 us/day running slow compared
> to the ground clock.
> IRT is a complete theory of motion. It includes SR and GR as subsets.
> IRT posits that there is no reciprocity between relative frames.
>>
>> My computations suggest that your experiment is not precise enough
>> to show much of anything.
>
> Please show your calculations and e-mail me a copy.

I'll have to redo 'em. I'll get back to you this weekend on that. :-)

>
> Ken Seto
> 

-- 
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Quantcast