Re: Basis for magnetic monopoles

From: Timo Nieminen (timo_at_physics.uq.edu.au)
Date: 06/20/04 

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:18:18 +1000

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004, greywolf42 wrote:

> Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> >On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, greywolf42 wrote:
> >
> >> Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>
> >> >> > > I should also point
> >> >> > > out that Lorentz (1904) pointed out the futility of attempting to
> >> >> > > measure speed variations through the use of interference effects.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do note that measurement techniques have improved over the
> >> >> > intervening century.
> >> >>
> >> >> ROTFLMAO!!!! Technique was not Lorentz' issue.
> >>
> >> No response, I see. I presume you *do* understand what Lorentz'
> >> statements were, and why 'technique' was a pathetically ignorant
> >> (or foolish) digression?
> >
> >Provide a specific reference, or a direct quote (with sufficient
> >context), so I can know what Lorentz's actual statement was.
>
> Perhaps you should not be so quick to post authoritative-sounding statements
> about various documents, unless you've actually read them.

Do note that I did not post an authorititative-sounding statement about
said document.

> http://www.google.com/groups?selm=vnovs0jl108540%40corp.supernews.com
>
> "... (I)t appears that those parts which are dark while the system is at
> rest, will remain so after it has been put into motion. It will therefore
> be impossible to detect an influence of the Earth's motion on any optical
> experiment, made with a terrestrial source of light, in which the
> geometrical distribution of light and darkness is observed. Many
> experiments on interference and diffraction belong to this class."

Insufficient context. Perhaps an actual reference would be better.

I note that his statement is restricted to experiments made using
terrestrial source of light. This is not as general as your original
statement. He also restricts his statement to experiments in which the
geometrical distribution of light and darkness is observed, noting that
this includes *many* experiments of interference, as opposed to your
original *all* experiments.

Finally, if this is a conclusion drawn from his Lorentz-symmetric theory
of classical EM, then it's no surprise. And recall that the attempt to
detect violations of a theory does involve looking for deviations from
the predictions of the theory.

> >Do note that the issue at hand is not measuring "speed variations".
>
> Then why are you wasting my time with questions like:
> "What speed would be sufficient to be a 'relativistic speed'? "

You brought it up, insisting that low-speed measurements are insufficient.

> >And do note the existence of techniques not making use of interference
> >effects to attempt to measure deviations from Lorentz symmetry.
>
> Name one, please. Hint: There isn't one on the Relativity FAQ that is not
> an interference effect.

I'll name two:

Transverse Doppler shift:
Champeney et al., Phys. Lett. 7, 241 (1963).

Source independence of speed of light:
Alvager et al. Phys. Lett. 12, 260 (1964)
... and the other non-definitive earlier experiments.

> >Is Lorentz's pre-SR EM theory (at least predictively) correct in the
> >non-quantum regime?
>
> Under certain conditions it is.

Under what conditions? Under what conditions is it not? 

-- 
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html

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