Re: A theory of beliefs

From: Fabrizio J. Bonsignore (fbonsignore_at_beethoven.com)
Date: 07/21/04 

Date: 21 Jul 2004 16:35:37 -0700

Johnny 5 <johnny5@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Xns952D806575A49Johnny5yahoocom@65.32.1.7>...
>
(snip)
> Indeed, a social group can be defined by the fact that all its members
> share the same meme (Heylighen, 1992)
>

I am not very convinced about the idea of memes... I like this
characterization of social group, yet it is somewhat limited. The
basic principle of Living Beings is diversity, so it must be either a
very diverse, complex meme and therefore analyzable, or a very small
and close social group (sect? fanatic?). More likely than not a social
group would hold a basic set of beliefs strongly correlated (coheret)
about certain basic issues, while its members diverge in details and
other issues. I believe it is very difficult if not impossible to find
really basic and indivisible memes... at most the meme is a fuzzy
concept, like trying to isolate the set of connections that identify a
category in a neural network.

(snip)
>
> As long as a meme spreads more quickly to new carriers, than that its
> carriers die, the meme will proliferate, even though the knowledge it
> induces in any individual carrier may be wholly inadequate and even
> dangerous to survival. In this view a piece of knowledge may be succesful
> (in the sense that it is common or has many carriers) even though its
> predictions may be totally wrong, as long as it is sufficiently
> 'convincing' to new carriers.

One of the points of my post Alive and Human. The Human (Rational
Beings`) environment is more complex than the Natural World in which
we evolved as living beings. Reason is detached from evolution,
orthogonal if you like, and presents a more convoluted hyperplane for
exploration. And the necessary condition of living beings of being
diverse guarantees that we`ll see ideas that are contrary to
biological survival, when biological survival is no longer the main
determinant of living (Rational) conduct. Reason has the meaning of
searching possibilities in a chaotic Reality, which further guarantees
the appearance of beliefs contrary to what from other points of view
(methods of inquiry) would be called `truth`.

> Here we see a picture where even the
> subject of knowledge has lost his primacy, and knowledge becomes a force
> of its own with proper goals and ways of developing itself. That this is
> realistic can be illustrated by the many superstitions, fads, and
> irrational beliefs that have spread over the globe, sometimes with a
> frightening speed.

I cannot yet conceive of a `knowledge field` without a physical
support. It would either degenerate into Chaos or become static.
Certainly knowledge evolves independently of individual carriers
(mostly, but not totally), but it is not a living force by itself. Its
dynamic depends on a synamic support. There is static knowledge, but
its nature as knowledge reveals only after it is dynamically
confronted against Chaos, i. e., used. A hammer is just a piece of
metal until someone uses it to break something...

And yes, fads tend to spread with alarming speed, but not always. It
would be interesting to know why, and how. I guess marketers would be
very interested in knowing too. And it would also have social positive
effects if it leads to beneficial patterns of demand that in turn
would lead to an increased production level (a bigger cake to
distrbute).

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A theory of beliefs
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  • Re: A theory of beliefs
    ... The death of an individual carrying a certain meme ... quickly to new carriers, than that its carriers die, the meme will ... the many superstitions, fads, and irrational beliefs that have spread ... mrs. black america pageant and I get called a racist if I want a mrs. ...
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