Re: The Cost of Relativity

From: Myxococcus xanthus (mold-guardian_at_comcast.net)
Date: 07/23/04 

Date: 23 Jul 2004 08:45:51 -0700

"Androcles" <androc1es@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<_K9Lc.3957$NO1.39308305@news-text.cableinet.net>...
> "Myxococcus xanthus" <mold-guardian@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ce5e7813.0407192311.3dd243a8@posting.google.com...
> | "Androcles" <androc1es@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<2GXKc.3629$lW2.35306709@news-text.cableinet.net>...
> |
> | > Therefore the table of ratios defines universal time. An oscillator
> which
> | > changes is simply an imperfect oscillator. As to WHY its count should
> change
> | > I do not know, but I am certain that if it changed because of a
> variation in
> | > it's local time, then local time changes relative to the absolute time
> | > defined by the ratios of all other oscillators.
> |
> | If an atomic clock next to me indicates that 1.000000000 seconds has
> | passed, and an atomic clock that I am monitoring in MEO orbit
> | indicates that 1.000000010 seconds has passed, and an atomic clock
> | that I am monitoring in HEO orbit indicates that 1.000000015 seconds
> | has passed, how much "universal time" has passed?
>
> From the data given, I have no idea. I don't know the ratio for any of the
> clocks given to make an entry in the table of all other oscillators in the
> universe.

That's only ONE of many problems with your mental exercise. You have
outlined a primitive observational program that has no hope of
providing data precise enough to define a "universal second", much
less hope to challenge existing theory.

> However, for the purpose of this exercise, let us stipulate that the clock
> next to you is synchronized to universal time, since you have indicated it
> to be exactly 1 second. I will use that clock to time the orbits of the
> satellites mentioned as they transit my telescope, and use controls as well,
> such as the moons of Jupiter and the transit of various stars to the
> accuracy specified by you. Proceeding with my hypothetical experiment, I
> will continue to count orbits of your satellite to a total of (some large
> number) of orbits.
> Should I discover that your satellite has "timed" 1 more (or less) orbit
> than I have counted, I will ask you where the extra orbit came from.

Why are you proposing to use such primitive means as a transit scope?
The most accurate astronomical oscillators are the pulsars, and I
estimate that terabytes of long-term observational data are available
on hundreds of well-studied examples.

Pulsar timing stability, after allowing for the secular slowdown that
all pulsars experience, is on the order of 1x10^-11.

> | > Further note that the counter we use to count the oscillations of say,
> | > Ganymede or Europa or Titan is not local to any of those moons or their
> | > planets. We are the counter, for we haven't automated the count. The
> | > intervening distance is immaterial to the ratios. The Androclean clock
> is an
> | > oscillator that is remote from its counter, and can always be perfectly
> | > synchronized with any other Androclean clock simply by setting them to
> the
> | > same count when the counters are together, regardless of how far away or
> in
> | > which direction the oscillators may be, so long as the signal can be
> heard
> | > by the counter.
> |
> | Let ACO stand for "Androclean counter"
> | Let ARO stand for "Androclean Rubidium Oscillator"
> | Let ACL stand for "Androclean clock" comprising an ARO and a remote
> | ACO.
> |
> | ACO-1 counts ticks from ARO-1 which is sitting next to me.
> | ACO-2 counts ticks from ARO-2 which is in MEO.
> | ACO-3 counts ticks from ARO-3 which is in HEO.
> |
> | Right "now" I set all three ACOs to July 20, 2004 06:59:30.000000000
> | UTC
> |
> | Are the three ACLs, by your definition, now perfectly synchronized?
> Being adjacent, yes.
>
> |
> | What in the world have I managed to accomplish by "synchronizing" the
> | three ACLs in this fashion?
>
> We have a common reference from which the experiment can commence, of
> course.
>
> However, your choice of the commencing moment is arbitrary, and a second
> satellite, while perhaps useful in a real experiment as a control, is not
> required in a hypothetical experiment.
> I shall use one satellite and synchronize the counters as the satellite
> transits the telescope. Note that this does nothing to the oscillators.
> Oh, I forgot to mention that the telescope I'm using is perfectly aligned
> North-South, as at Flamsteed House on the Greenwich Meridian, to the
> desired accuracy necessary to conduct the experiment to the tolerance you
> specify.

You have no hope of achieving observational accuracies approaching
1x10^-13 (the accuracy of a commercial cesium clock) using your
proposed arrangement.

Instead of inadequate transit timings, I suggest that you analyze the
terabytes of pulsar observational data available.

Pular observational data, for example, has been used to verify various
predictions of GR.

:-)

> In this way we'll determine the interval of time we call "one orbit" to be
> in agreement with the ratio of counts of ACO-1 and ACO-2, which we
> anticipate will differ, showing 100,000,000 for ACO-1 and 100,000,001 for
> ACO-2.
> In this fashion I hope we can agree that the position of the satellite and
> the period of its orbit is in agreement with universal time, and that the
> artificial device, called ARO,
> is no longer correctly recording the period of its own orbit, a reference to
> time itself, for reasons as yet undiscovered. The ARO is out of synch with
> its own standard, the orbit. Why, I do not know, but the orbit itself agrees
> with universal time.

Myxococcus xanthus

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