Re: "The map is not the Territory"...

From: Bilge (dubious_at_radioactivex.lebesque-al.net)
Date: 07/30/04 

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 03:39:33 -0000

 Paul Stowe:
>On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:30:00 GMT, Tom Roberts <tjroberts@lucent.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul Stowe wrote:
>>> As has been clearly noted & shown by certain posters of late,
>>> some seem to think that equations ARE reality. They speak in
>>> phrases like, "why, the energy COMES from Noether's Theorem,
>>> of course" or, a physical cause "follows from the variation
>>> of the EM Action integral...", etc.
>>> [...]
>>
>> Sure. This is just a manner of speaking. Everyone does it,
>
> No, 'everybody does NOT use this 'manner of speaking'. It is,
> now how do you put it???, oh yeah, very imprecise & sloppy at
> best.

  Ok. Then change the word, ``everyone'' to ``physicists''. Go to a
physics talk sometime and when you hear such a statement, make the same
comment you made above. Pursue your question and report back on how long
it takes before the physicists in the audience start groaning and attempt
to help expedite an explanation in order to get back to the subject of the
talk. Physicists speak to other physicists under the assumption that
another physicist is competent enough to know the meaning of a statement
like ``Angular momentum is conserved because of the commutator in line
two''. If you don't understand that sort of thing, you need to seriously
consider the possibility that your knowledge of physics isn't as good
as you think it is.

>> and it only confuses idiots and people who go out of their way
>> to be confused.
>
> I'm not the one making such outragious claims. I NEVER would.
 
  Then what was your purpose for arguing will bill hobba's remark
as if you were confused by it?

>> In fact, you use this very same manner of speaking yourself:
>
> Example(s) please...
>
>>> Physical energy can no more come from any equational
>>> expression than an actual mountain from any topological map.
>>
>> Note that "energy" of any form is a human concept, and is not
>> "real" in any sense at all.
>
> Tell that to the brick you dropped on you foot, or the bullet that
> impacts you skull :)
 
  Well, I don't really agree with tom's choice of words, but energy
is nothing more than natures way of keeping the books.

>> That "equational expression" _DEFINES_ what energy is, and the use
>> of "comes from" is a common usage.
>
> "the map IS NOT the trritory!"
 
  Energy isn't even a map. It's a ledger ***.

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