Re: How to make measurements of a particle

From: Mike Helland (mhelland_at_techmocracy.net)
Date: 08/04/04 

Date: 4 Aug 2004 09:35:09 -0700

Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote:
> Mike Helland wrote:
> > Bjoern Feuerbacher wrote:
> >
> >>Mike Helland wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
> >>>Ok, so, can anyone point me to an accessible text on how exactly
> >>>how
> >>>the measurements are made, all the way through setting up the
> >>>experiment, describing what happens, and then ending up with the
> >>>numbers?
> >>
> >>Irrelevant. This is true for *all* possible measurements.
> >>
> >>This follows simply from the wave-particle duality - but can also
be
> >>shown more mathematically from Heisenberg's commutation relation
> >> (which is an axiom of QM).
> >
> >
> > What do you mean irrelevant?
>
> Exactly what I said. The details of the measurements are irrelevant
> for the outcome. The uncertainty principle is true for *all* possible
> measurements.

I realize that. But knowing how the an experiment involving electrons
and some light produces a measurement of the electron's position or
momentum should contain some knowledge on exactly how the
electromagnetic interaction works in the real world. And I wish to
learn about the interaction.

> > I'd like to know how to set up the experiment involving an electron
and
> > some light.
> > I'd like to know what happens during the experiment, and
> > I'd like to know how the measurement follows from that.
>
> Why? What's so important about that special type of experiment?

What I know about the electromagnetic interaction is this:

like charges repel and unlike charges attract.

Because of HUP surely there is more to the basic interaction than what
I know, and understanding how the interaction produces a measurement of
position or momentum should tell me a little more.

> > All I need is a pointer to them.
>
> So Sam Wormley's links did not help?

No. One of his links was to the HUP, which you said I got essentially
right, and the other was an unfriendly reference to one of my ideas.
How to measure the position of an electron was not discussed in either
link.

I can't find what I'm looking for using
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=experiment+measure+position+electron&btnG=Google+Search

I thought someone here or in sci.physics.research would have a more
specific explanation of how this is acheived.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: the speed of light and shadowing
    ... An electromagnetic interaction between two bodies is ... an atom in the radio antenna and an atom on the moon is ... measurement and time measurement. ... The photon concept is unnecessary. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle
    ... > HUP is intrinsic in nature. ... > necessarily correspond to the quantum state of the ... > act of measurement can introduce a new quantum ... > an electron in the hydrogen atom ground state, ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: division by zero {infinities}
    ... heisenburgs uncertainty principle [HUP] comes into play. ... example a measurement of distance on a line graph; ... closer than one Plank length. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Understanding the HUP
    ... > in many cases hand waving with it even if not relevant ... I agree that too much importance is lain on the HUP. ... measurement can be when certain other measurements are made. ...
    (sci.physics.particle)
  • cheating (Re: Understanding the HUP)
    ... > I agree that too much importance is lain on the HUP. ... > many misunderstandings proliferate among scientists and hobbyists on issues ... > measurement can be when certain other measurements are made. ...
    (sci.physics.particle)