Re: Q question about relativity
From: Old Man (nomail_at_nomail.net)
Date: 09/06/04
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Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 13:58:36 -0500
"dar7yl" <no_reply@accepted.org> wrote in message news:CQW_c.71932$jZ5.34969@clgrps13...
> "Old Man" <nomail@nomail.net> wrote
> >
> > ... snip cranked-up crackpot diarrhea ...
>
> boy are you ever quick on the insult. (
Old Man's rudeness is in (apparently futile) response
to dar7yl's audacious delusions of competence.
> >
> >> My theory ...>
> >
> > Dar7yl's expression for photon mass is falsified by rudimentary
> > observation,
> > and it's not consistent with SR. Dar7yl's expression yields the absurd
> > conclusion
> > that photon mass-energy,
> >
> > m c^2 > E
> >
> > is greater than photon enrgy.
> >
> > Dar7yl is an SR dunderhead.
>
> again the rudeness. sign of an insecure person, I've been told.
>
> >Invariant mass (there isn't any other kind of mass) is given by
> >
> > m = (E / c^2) sqrt[ 1 - (v / c)^2 ]
>
> thank you for correcting my math.
>
> My contention still holds true. As the velocity of a particle nears 0, the
> mass of the particle approaches
> zero-v mass (zvm) =(E / c^2) ( as the rest of the eqn = 1 when v = 0 )
>
> As you increase the speed (without adding energy, so you have to exchange
> mass for velocity), you see that the mass decreases because (v/c) approaches
> 1. As you square that result (because we live in a 3-dimensional universe)
> it still approaches 1, but more slowly. When you subtract from 1, and take
> the square root of that, you find that the whole term approaches 0
> asymptotically, thereby reducing the mass to zero.
Is dar7yl claiming that a photon can be accelerated, that is, that
dp / dt > or < 0 (photon momentum, p = E/ c) ? Both QED and
CED claim not, but, instead, claim that any interaction with a
photon involves the complete absorption of the original photon
and subsequent emission of a new one. There's no known
mechanism for partially absorbing the energy of a photon.
> 'v' cannot exceed the speed of light, because that would cause the sqrt of a
> negative number, which would, mathematically speaking, toss that particle
> clear out of our universe.
>
> Consider a photon (quantum) travelling through a fibre-optic cable. You
> measure that it's speed is significantly lower than the speed of light.
> Aha! you say, that is the result of the refractive index of the material, so
> we'll call it fn(ri), or just 'fri'.
The propagation of light in bulk matter involves the repeated absorption
and delayed re-emission of photons by the atoms of the medium. the light
travels at c between off-shell atomic interactions. The accumulated delays
constitute the apparent v / c =n.
... snip ...
> There is only one way to verify my theory, and that is to put it to a test.
> Here's my proposed experiment. I don't know if we have the necessary
> resolution yet, but I'll leave it up to someone to do the math.
>
> Apparatus:
> 1) Fibre optic cable with measured refractive index < 1, and sufficient
> length to delay light a significant amount, coiled up for convenience.
> 2) Source of light with measurable wattage output (ie laser)
> 3) Mass scale of sufficient resolution.
>
> Method:
> 1) Measure the mass of the fibre-optic cable.
> 2) Pump light into the fibre-optic cable for the duration it takes light
> to pass through it.
> 3) When the light has reached the far end of the cable, stop the source
> and join the ends so that the light is repetitively travelling through the
> cable. Compute the amount of energy of the light = Wattage x Time.
> 4) Measure the new mass of the cable and light. Subtract mass of cable
> to determine the mass of the light.
> 5) use the equation m = (E / c^2) sqrt[ 1 - (fri)^2 ] to determine the
> theoretical mass trapped in the cable.
But this is the prediction of CED and QED. During the photon-atomic
interactions that are responsible for the delayed propagation in the
medium, the light energy is at rest WRT the medium. Thus, even though
the photons travel at c between interactions, via the proportion of time
that the light energy is at rest during interactions, each photon appears
to have an effective mass, m = (E / c^2) sqrt[ 1 - n^2 ].
Furthermore, if N photons are trapped by circulating in the cable,
such that the cable is at rest WRT the N photons' center-of-momentum,
then the observed increase in cable mass is delta_m = N*E / c^2.
So, dar7yl's proposed experiment will yield nothing more than
vindication of SR, QED, and CED whereof, v_photon = c.
[Old Man]
> 6) compare the computed result with the measured mass.
>
> Variants:
> 1) light energy: bounded by cable length, determined by laser frequency,
> wattage, length of on time.
> 2) refractive index of fibre-optic cable - determined by materials
> properties, temperature.
> 3) initial light content of cable - should purge of light before test.
>
> Expected Results:
> 1) the cable's mass will increase by the amount predicted.
>
> I realize that the amounts are miniscule, and probably can't be measured
> using today's equipment, but until someone can perform this experiment, they
> should keep their negative comments to themselves.
>
> regards,
> Dar7yl
>
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