Re: Russia Getting Set To Pull An Uncle Al?

From: mitch perkins (mitchsperkins_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 09/17/04 

Date: 17 Sep 2004 01:27:55 -0700

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message news:<41483dfe$0$2646$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> In article <64dddc3d.0409131009.40b1b87d@posting.google.com>,
> mitchsperkins@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message
> news:<41457aee$0$2667$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> <snip>
>
> >> > Not suggesting bargaining with terrorists, however it is illogical
> >> >to assume that they just suddenly became "jealous", and orchestrated
> >> >9/11.
> >>
> >> They didn't suddenly become jealous. Their intention is to destroy
> >> the world's current lifestyle.
> >
> > World's or West's?
>
> They say west but in reality it is the world's.

  Hmmm, I guess anything that greatly affected the former would affect
the latter. I'm hesitant to claim certain knowledge of what's what "in
reality".
> >
> >> They use a religion to recruit
> >> people and justify their actions to these people. They also
> >> have figured out that, if the west perceives that it's a religious
> >> issue, then lots of leeway will be given to very bad behaviour.
> >
> > If that's true, it's rather starting to backfire, no?
>
> Not yet.

  Look, if I want to be always wrong, I'll go talk to my imaginary
friend. What a *prick* that guy is! :)

  <snip>

> > Still, in what way have impoverished citizens of oil-rich countries
> >w/corrupt leaders benefitted from said fruits?
>
> What impoverished citizens?

  I thought there were impoverished citizens.

> Each country has different cash flows
> depending on who is in charge and if the country is productive.

  I think you know much more about this than I. Said it before, but my
main objection is against "kill all - " type "solutions". Realize
that's not your view, either.
> >>
> >> > Thus it ever was.
> >> > I would be willing to take an extreme cut in standard of living in
> >> >the name of peace and global equity.
> >>
> >> But that is exactly what the terrorists want you to do; they want
> >> to change the global economies and political structures
> >
> > Are these possibly due for change? Positive change? (Possible
> >without violence?)
>
> If you haven't noticed lately, things have been changing.

  Whaaa? :)

> Democracy-based governing is 50% or more. Countries who
> start managing based on capitalism are getting very
> successful very fast. Most of this is getting done without
> any violence; people are too busy making money.

  That sounds great. I guess I've been focusig on a different type of
news item. I'm all for democracy, and *smart* capitalism. That's where
people take an interest in each other's well-being, *and* making tons
of cash.
  
  <snip>
> >
> > Some feel that wage labour is a form of slavery.
>
> The Liberal Democrats need to have you believe that so you
> can swallow the hook that is attached to that line. Unions
> like to have that belief instilled in their membership
> because no slave is allowed to question the master.
>
> > .. No strong opinion
> >on the question, here. Factory work got me my first set of Gretsch!
>
> Did you plop down the downpayment of the first union dues?

  Roto-gravure plant. *Amazing* 4 story presses with intricate
webbing. Circa '84 [?] - $12.00/hr, 20 min. break every hour, and
that's without being in union (pt time "jogger" [know what that is?]).
The pressmen got 1/2 hour break every hour.
  Hmmm...that plant's gone now.
  From the plant "house keeping" book: "No drinking or sleeping on the
job."
  They actually had to *say* it!
 
  <snip>
 
> >...Physics has become an obsession over the
> >past 8 months, for some strange reason. :?)
>
> No strange reason. Physics types are real good at teaching how
> to think analytically. The smartest man I knew had his mental
> training in physics.

  Yes. Even without the equations, which I'm slooowly picking up,
there is much to admire in the mindset. That's why I'm here, and
that's why "kill all - " statements seem out of place.

  <snip>

> > Read a book by a Canadian conservative recently. He made a lot of
> >sense. The fallacy is probably in the divisive designations. Who will
> >start the Logic party?
>
> I don't think logic and politics mix well.

  We're doomed.
>
> <snip>
>
> >> It is not tit for tat. Where/when did we use kids as shields?
> >> You won't find any because it wouldn't have stopped anybody from
> >> shooting. It doesn't stop these militants.
> >
> > Not as shields, but many suffered and died from sanctions.
>
> Sure. Now tell me why we are to blame for those deaths. In
> Iraq I'd lay the first order of blame in Saddam's lap

  Okay...

> and the
> second order of blame in Russia, Germany and France's lap.

  I need more reading...

> <snip>
>
> >> I sure as hell am not
> >> advocating blowing Russia up to prevent another World
> >> Trade Center mess.
> >
> > Right. But nukes are too indiscriminating. Must carefully target
> >individual agitators,
>
> Why? These people think differently.

  But *we* must continue to think the same. Retain our values. Not
stoop.

> You kill them and they're
> fucking 78 vigins for the rest of their life. You demonstrate
> that you will kill them, their sons, their daughters, their wives,
> they stop making messes for a while.

  I'm with you up to and including "them", but to me, the sins are not
visited etc...
>
> > ..and, *most importantly*, source of resentment.
>
> Get off that track. This has nothing to do with resentment other
> than you have something they don't want;

  Nothing to do with how I got it?

> therefore, they must
> destroy what you do have. This is not resentment; this is
> intolerance.

  I don't want to kill myself over it; assuming for the moment our
wealth *was* achieved un-fairly, well, that is absolutely par for the
course for humanity up to this point. So also is the reaction of the
have-nots (have-nots existence being an acknowledged point of debate
here).
>
> <snip>
>
> >> > ..Gawd, that burned my ass! A total
> >> >heartbreaker!
> >> > When the smoke and dust settled though, I felt there must be a
> >> >complex issue behind it all.
> >>
> >> It is complex in that there is no one action that one person
> >> can take to make it all better. The complexity has to do with
> >> the Ottoman breakup leftovers. This problem has been around
> >> since waybackwhen. I read history book published in ~1910 where
> >> the author laments Western goverments ignoring this problem.
> >> We can't ignore it anymore.
> >
> > I'm with you all the way here. Let me add for clarification of my
> >position that if any person wishes to kill me because I don't believe
> >in their god, I have no problem blowing them away first. Ouch!
>
> But they don't want to kill you because you don't believe in their
> god.

  Then it's definitely not a religious conflict.

> These messmakers are killing fellow Muslims, too.

  A very bad sign, granted.

> They want
> to kill you because you benefit and live in Western Civilization.
> The fact that these people also live and use the products of
> Western civilization just makes the irony better.

  To me it's what makes the whole issue more puzzling and complex. You
certainly could be right though, /BAH; I just don't know.

  Later,
  Mitch