Re: Extremophile Mars - Johathon admits to his computer break-in at JPL.

From: george (george_at_wtfiswrongwithyou.com)
Date: 11/28/04 

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:35:31 GMT

"jonathan" <Write@Instead.com> wrote in message news:41a944d8$1_5@127.0.0.1...
>
> "george" <george@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote in message
> news:WCTpd.673474$8_6.96858@attbi_s04...
>>
>> "jonathan" <Write@Instead.com> wrote in message
>> news:41a7d082$1_3@127.0.0.1...
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, if Nasa says the hematite there typically forms in
>> >> > ....warm water.. what else is one to conclude? Any
>> >> > water flow on Mars must come from underground.
>> >>
>> >> Warm water? Care to provide a link to MER data that clearly demonstrates
>> >> the
>> >> hematite at Meridiani Planum was formed in warm water?
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes. And the following also blows away your contention that the rock
>> > margins, and fans, are the result of wind blown sand and long-term
>> > erosion. They are due to water from a hydrothermal system
>> > according to the following abstract clips.
>> >
>> >
>> > Vittorio Formisano's & V. Cottini's Ischia Abstract
>> > INTERNATIONAL MARS CONFERENCE
>> >
>> > September, 19, 23, 2004
>> >
>> > "Evidence from independent investigators is building for current vent
>> > activity on Mars. Such activity is mentioned as a possibility in the
>> > Formisano/Cottini Ischia abstract. HF is a gas that may indicate
>> > presence of hydrothermal vents activity, where conditions favourable
>> > to biotic or abiotic origin of formaldehyde may exist."
>> > -- PFS OBSERVATION OF METHANE FORMALDEHYDE AND
>> > HF: EXTANT LIFE ON MARS?,"
>>
>> Ok. So where is the link I asked for? This is not evidence that the talus
>> slope feature in endurance crater is anything other than what I said it is.
>> "Independent investigators"? Who the hell are these guys?
>
>
>
> The Opportunity photo below was interpreted by the following
> 'quack'. This fellow indicates the features you describe as
> wind blown sand are instead the result of vent activity.
> As in geothermal vent.
>
> "Planetary Fourier Spectrometer (PFS), a scientific instrument carried by
> Mars Express. Its principal investigator is Vittorio Formisano, director
> of research at the Institute of Interplanetary Space Physics in Rome, Italy."
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3673248.stm

Johnathon, are you really that stupid? That is an article about ESA's Mars
Express, which could no more make a determination that endurance crater is a
vent than you can. There is nothing, nada, in that article to suggest that the
wind blown features within endurance craters are "vents", since the article is
not even about endurance crater. You've outdone all of your previous stupid
posts this time. And there is not even discussion about "vents" in the article.

>> > "NASA image: MER Opportunity :: Panoramic Camera :: Sol 183 "
>> > http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_p183.html
>> > "As one example, such vent or percolation activity is strongly suggested
>> > by Mars Exploration Rover (MER) Opportunity :: Panoramic Camera
>> > :: Sol 183 [image] [browse]. "
>
>
>
>> And HF kills just
>> about every known life form on earth, so why anyone would consider HF as an
>> indicator of life on Mars is more than a little absurd.
>
>
> The lead investigator for the ESA spectrometer claims that two of the
> primary gasses are biomarkers and the third HF, is a marker
> for ...guess what....recent hydrothermal activity.

That has nothing to do with endurance crater. It is just an indicator that
hydrothermal activity may be or may have recently occurred somewhere on Mars.
It says nothing whatsoever about Meridiani or endurance crater. You really
should leave this to us professionals as you can't even read a "for public
consumption" article, much less a professional paper.

>
>> My interpretation
>> stands.
>
>
> It's an absurd conclusion. The thought that this delicate feature......
> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/297/1N154552477EFF3897P1992L0M1.JPG
> could remain little changed for millions of years with an
> atmosphere that does this.....
> http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20041104a.html
> ...is idiotic.

First of all, those are atmospheric storm clouds, not surface winds. Secondly,
who said that your feature has remained unchanged for millions of years? If you
had correctly read my argument, you would have seen that I said that it was
built up over millions of years. That implies change, not no change. Finally,
the fact that you post obvious weather on Mars that even you admit can have an
affect on surface features supports my conclusion, not yours. You say it is a
vent? Where is the HF emanating from it? Oh right. MER hasn't seen any. Nor
has it seen any methane emanating from endurance. Oh, and where is this vent?
What you say is a vent is just a debris talus slope below fractured bedrock on
the rim of an impact crater; A feature that no doubt can be seen in countless
craters on Mars, and even on the moon. In fact, if you take a look at close up
pictures of the meteor crater in Arizona, you will see similar talus slope, some
formed by the wind, others formed by slumping.

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/images/mcrater1.jpg

There is nothing new about these kinds of geological features. If you had any
sense at all, you stop this charade, because no one in the geological community
is buying into your lame explanations.

>
> And I suppose the folks are Arizona State know nothing about
> geology either.

See above.

> "By analogy to Earth, such deposits may have formed through regional
> hydrothermal
> activity and/or biologic sulfate reduction in organic-rich sediments. Our
> hypothesis
> is that regional heating of the ice-bearing crust in the Meridiani Planum
> caused a
> release of subsurface waters, formation of pyrite-rich deposits, their
> oxidation
> by atmospheric oxygen, and precipitation of sulfates and goethite followed by
> dehydroxylation of goethite to hematite."
> http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm04/fm04-sessions/fm04_P24A.html
>
> QED!

You left out some of what is said: "Neither volcanic emanations nor aqueous
weathering of igneous rocks can account for low-pH conditions in a surface water
reservoir several hundreds of km across. However, the jarosite-gypsum-goethite
assemblage could have precipitated from acidic solutions formed through
near-surface oxidation of pyrite-rich deposits. By analogy to Earth, such
deposits may have formed through regional hydrothermal activity and/or biologic
sulfate reduction in organic-rich sediments. Our hypothesis is that regional
heating of the ice-bearing crust in the Meridiani Planum caused a release of
subsurface waters, formation of pyrite-rich deposits, their oxidation by
atmospheric oxygen, and precipitation of sulfates and goethite followed by
dehydroxylation of goethite to hematite."

Hydrothermal activity can simply mean that the thermal gradient (akin to the
earth's geothermal gradient) saw an increase in subsurface temperature over the
region. This can occur due to an impact, for instance, and even increased
volcanic activity (with or without emanations). Regardless, there is no
evidence in any of the images released to date from Opportunity that vents have
been discovered. The geologic features seen are regional in scale, so any vents
that theoretically could have bene involved could be anywhere. They certainly
haven't been seen at the opportunity site. The rock at the opportunity sites
are cross-bedded, which indicates that they were formed in a high-energy water
environment - as your article itself points out - "in an ancient martian lake",
possibly in a near-shore environment. And the statement that "regional heating
of the ice-bearing crust in the Meridiani Planum caused a release of subsurface
waters" simply means that ice-bearing crust could have been melted by the rise
in the thermal gradent in the subsurface, in which case, all it takes is to
raise the temperature above freezing and you get water. That is hardly a case
for calling it "hydrothermal" in the classic case. And do note that they are
talking about a hypothesis, something which has to be tested, not fact. There
is no "vent" in the picture you've posted. Only bedrock fractures that were
likely formed by the impact that made the crater long after the bedrock was
formed (otherwise, the bedrock would not be fractured at all).

>
> Oh, and remember that Opportunity 'report' that so ticked
> you off.
> During my search for the above article it came
> up all over the search engines. It seems that spaceref.com
> and space.com ran with it~ I've been published!
>
> I just love the internet.
>
> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=13800

SO, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT YOU BROKE INTO JPL'S COMPUTER AND POSTED A HOAX,
RIGHT?

"Editor's note: late last night we posted an item by error which we believed at
the time - and the source who forwarded it to us - to be a new NASA JPL Mars
Rover Status report mentioning Jack Farmer. We soon discovered it had not been
issued by NASA - but rather that it was a hoax - and we pulled it offline. We
regret any confusion this has caused."

THAT MUST MAKE YOU EXTREMELY PROUD, YOU FUCKING TROLL!!! Do you honestly
believe that falsifying scientific data and then breaking into JPL's computers
and posting it on JPL's web site qualifies you as being "published"? You are
insane, boy. And I for one am going to make sure that the proper people know
about you, and what you've done. I find it even more amazing that you would
post an admission right here.

> http://www.markcarey.com/mars/discuss-17909-dunes-and-water.html

Interesting read. I've read this before - right here, posted by you, as an
original post. I wonder if JPL nows who their hoaxter is? I think I will ask
them.

> http://www.habitablezone.com/space/messages/340643.html
>
>
>>
>>
>> NOT!!! How many times do people have to point out that you don't know what
>> you
>> are talking about before you simply give up?
>
>
> Tell me then, who will you believe??? Name the institution
> or researcher and I'll go find out what they think.

I believe my own eyes, and ears, and scientific judgement based on years of
training and field work. And not only do you not hold up to that standard, you
have shown yourself right here to be a fraud, and a hoaxter, and since you
fucked with JPL's web site, that also makes you a criminal.

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