Re: 1c+1c Closing Velocity of Light and Matter

From: Henri Wilson (H_at_..(Henri)
Date: 01/05/05 

Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 07:04:11 GMT

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:25:26 GMT, "Tom Capizzi" <tom.capizzi@verizon.net>
wrote:

>
>"Henri Wilson" <H@..> wrote in message
>news:4p3mt0h4jspkhpfacvidnjddjfqn1qp7cv@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 05:54:40 +1000, Timo Nieminen
>> <uqtniemi@mailbox.uq.edu.au>
>> wrote:
>>

>>>> >>>>Sam W states that a moving rod IS shortened
>>>> >>>
>>
>> It's all bunkum.
>>
>> Question: If the speed of a rod is altered by the application of a force,
>> does
>> the rod become longer or shorter?
>>
>> Answer: Its velocity change can be + or -, depending on the observer.
>> Therefore
>> SR's gamma transform can also increase or decrease, depending on the
>> observer.
>> Therefore the 'apparent' length of the rod can either increase of
>> decrease....but it obviously cannot do both simultaneously IN THE PHYSICAL
>> SENSE.
>
>In the same frame of reference. From different frames both conditions are
>possible.

Geez!
Physical changes don't have anything to do with frames.

>
>> The SR effect is an observational illusion.
>>
>> Clearly, after the force is removed, the rod is exactly the same as it was
>> beforehand.
>
>Again, only in the frame of the rod itself. The application of a force must
>change
>the velocity of the rod. To an observer in another inertial frame, the
>difference
>in velocity becomes a difference in gamma, and a changed length.

That is an observational illusion, if it occurs at all.
The rod is exactly the same as it was originally.

>
>> Exactly the same argument applies to clock rates.
>>
>
>Ditto.

Ditto.

>
>> Conclusion: Neither rod lengths nor clock rates are physically altered by
>> the
>> application and subsequent removal of a force.
>>
>
>Again, only in the frame of the moving rod itself.

frames have nothing to do with this.

>
>I don't like the predictions of SR either, but when confronted by evidence,
>I am
>forced to accept reality. There is a classic experiment involving the decay
>rate
>of some subatomic particle (muon, I think). At non-relativistic speeds these
>particles have a known half life. Detectors are situated at the top and
>bottom
>of a mountain. It takes a known amount of time for these high speed
>particles
>to travel to the ground level. Based on the half-life, a certain fraction of
>them
>are expected to decay. In fact, fewer particles decay than their half-life
>would
>justify. According to SR, the observer in the stationary frame can attribute
>this
>observation to time dilation as experienced by the particles. In the moving
>frame
>of the particles, there is no time dilation. However, the particle frame
>experiences
>length contraction of the height of the mountain, and simply doesn't travel
>as
>far to the ground. To the stationary observer, the mountain doesn't shrink
>and
>to the moving observer time does not dilate. However, when the particles
>arrive
>at the detector, more of them have not decayed than their half-life
>requires. Both
>observers correctly predict the percentage of decayed particles using SR,
>even
>though their explanations couldn't be more different. So, are the effects of
>SR
>real or illusion? Ask the surviving particles!

We know all about that. The experiment doesn't work. It assumes that the muons
are subluminal.
In fact the muons travel at >c when they are formed.

>

HW.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

"If it's repeated often enough they'll eventually believe it" __Albert Bush

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