Re: 4 prohumanist continued

From: Franz Heymann (notfranz.heymann_at_btopenworld.com)
Date: 01/22/05 

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:58:27 +0000 (UTC)

"jessie" <pub@austin.com> wrote in message
news:d2m4v0l7j5vs2qii3mthanroj53dim2hsk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:15:04 -0500, "robert j. kolker"
> <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >david wrote:
> >>
> >> Everything you see, sense, taste, feel, hear, smell is God. God
is ALL
> >> there is/was/will ever be. Science can only examine what is
already
> >> created.
> >
> >Plutonium which does not exist in nature was created (from other
heavy
> >elements to be sure) at Oak Ridge laboratories during WWII.
> >
> >Humans do not and cannot create matter or energy ex nihilo as that
would
> >violate several conservation laws. But that does not mean matter
was
> >created. It could have always existed.
> >
> >Bob Kolker
>
> Is that your scientific explanation? That matter might have just
> always existed?

Indeed, yes. That is, ever since time existed.

> The truth is bobby, that neither you nor I have a
> clue as to the extent of matter and space and time and neither do
the
> scientist with their "modern tools and gadgets."

Speak for yourself. The cosmologists understand it reasonably well
right back to a few microseconds after time began.
>
> Your faith and belief that matter has just always existed and that
> some big bang or expansion and contraction of this matter created
the
> earth and literally millions of different life forms on it does
appear
> as lacking to me, as does my faith that God created all of this
> appears lacking to you.

Th concentrated nonsense in that paragraph testifies to the fact that
you do not know enough to comment on the topic.
>
> We both have only faith and belief in the end. Your faith and
belief
> is that all this complexity is some gigantic accident and that
> millions of life forms spontaneously occurred at about the same time
> (on the scale of infinite time).

Speak for yourself.
Evolution required billions of years to acquire the diversity and
complexity of life on earth.

> I have faith and belief that the
> earth was created and that all this life was intentionally crated by
> intelligence, not by a freaking accident of nature.

Where did that intelligence reside before it created the Universe, and
who created it?
Turtles all the way?

> For all their posturing and prancing and postulating, scientists
> really don't know jack *** about all of this.

You know no science, as may be judged from what you have said so far.
It would therefore behoove you to shut up until you have familiarised
yourdself with scientific matters.

> Even those like
> Hawking who have minds that are far beyond mine, don't really know
if
> there was a big bang, or if their was, if it was accidental or at
the
> hand of a creator.

So how come you can be so certain of it?

> We both in our own way hide behind our different dogmas and cling to
> our faith. Your pretense that science makes for a better dogma is
> not convincing in the area of creation of matter, time, or space.

Do I yet again have to remind you to constrain your opinions to
matters of which you have some knowledge?
How about being well-behaved and removing sci.physics from the list of
newsgroups when you reply?

> These things are so far beyond our science as to make them appear
> silly and foolish, just as many consider by religious explanation to
> be silly and foolish.
>
> You have reason, rational thought, very limited applications of the
> scientific method (a great tool in most research, but not up to the
> task at hand),

How do you know?

> and expansive and ever changing theories.

Each new theory in physics is usually an improvement over the one it
replaces, and the one so replaced usually continues its existence as a
limiting case of the new theory.

> I have prophecy made and prophecy fulfilled over and over and over
> during a period of thousands of years.

What a pity that you did not prophesise the tsunami, or inded the
invasion of Iraq.
> I have the testimony in the
> scriptures of hundreds of people who reportedly witnessed miracles,

BALLS

> and experienced communication with God.

And God was on both sides during both WWI and WWII

Last time I heard, about a decade ago, a statistical analysis of the
efficacy of prayer showed a small anti-correlation, but the statistics
were too poor to be able to say firmly that your god actually is
perverse.

> I have the so very many
> aspects of this word that defy scientific explanation.

That is what makes a career in science so interesting. It is
distinguished from religion in that it is alive.

> I have the
> bible, which is about the most amazing book that there is.

I particularly like the salacious bits, and that last book which was
obviously written by a bloke who was stoned out of his mind.

> Most
> non-believers and most believers have never read it in a way that
> allowed them to understand all the subtlety, all the symbolism, all
> the parody, or all the allegorical revelations of the bible.

Yes. For any quote, one can find a counterexample if one looka for
long enough.

>From here on you have become so maudlin that I decided to just snip
the garbage.

[snip]

Franz