Re: Vacuum - The Final Frontier

From: bz (bz+sp_at_ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu)
Date: 03/29/05 

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:17:29 +0000 (UTC)

"Jack" <chemphysicsdude@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1112050186.340517.160720
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> John C. Polasek wrote:
>
>> 16. The dual in Dual Space means that you I and everything are
>> duplicated automatically as antiparticles in Espace, where the real
>> laws work, solving our first problem "too much force in too much
>> empty".
>
>
> Uhm... so we have an antiparticles duplicate body. Are these
> what "ghosts" are if your model holds??
>
> Ok. I want to know. How are the antiparticles body connected
> to our physical body?? By what mechanism is it connected to
> the atoms of our physical body?? If you can influence the
> antiparticles body, how would the physical body be affected?
>
> Jack
>

I have been reading his paper "The World behind the Quantum Vacuum"
and I think I have seen a problem. He bases his whole idea on the allegation
that when you have two parallel plates forming a capacitor with a dielectric
between the plates and you charge the capacitor, remove the charging source,
remove the dielectric, the plates will be left with no charge.

[quote]
The plates are simply electrodes that enable full contact with the dielectric
during charging and discharging. Once the capacitor is charged, and
disconnected, the plates can be put aside (of course not in a vacuum
dielectric since the vacuum cannot be grasped). The protrusion in Fig. 1 is
figurative only, as these "excess" electrons have already made their way down
the wire. After disconnection, the plates are left neutral and the dielectric
remains under stress since there is no path for reverse current.
[unquote]

I suspect that statement is demonstrably wrong.

He cites the dis-assembleable lyden jar as proof.

I say that, first of all, the lyden jar has different geometry and second,
they say 'there is no spark' when the metal parts are touched together after
disassembly. That does not prove that there was no charge left, just that the
charge was too small to show a visible spark.

I cite David Halliday and Robert Resnick, Fundamentals of Physics. 1970
edition. There is a very interesting experiment described in on page 496

"Let us use a parallel-plate capacitor, carrying a fixed charge q and
not connected to a battery, to provide a uniform external electric Field
E_0 into which we place a dielectric slab.... ...the slab, as a whole,
although remaining electrically neutral becomes polarized.... There is
no trasfer of charge over macroscopic distances.... If a dielectric is
placed in an electric field, induced surface charges appear which tend
to weaken the original field within the dielectric. This weakening of
the electic field reveals itself as a reduction in potential difference
between the plates of [the] charged isolated capacitor...."

I contend that by symetrical considerations, removing the dielectric from a
charged capacitor would seem to be unlikely to leave the electrodes in an
uncharged state because that would require that when an uncharged dielectric
is place between the plates of an isolated capacitor, the charge on the
plates (and the voltage) would drop to zero.

In any case, it should be an easy experment to perform.

I contend that if removal of the dielectric doesn't leave the plates entirely
uncharged THEN the idea that the capacitor stores its energy ENTIRELY within
the space between the plates is false.

That would imply that Coulomb and Faraday were right and Polasek is wrong.

Does anyone have an electrometer, a voltage source, a way to get signal in
and out of a good vacuum, something to use for a dielectric, and a way to
remove the dielectric from between the plates without breaking the vacuum? 

-- 
bz
please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an 
infinite set.
bz+sp@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu   remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Vacuum - The Final Frontier
    ... >>allegation that when you have two parallel plates forming a capacitor ... >>left with no charge. ... electrons, the other has a surplus of electrons. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: DC and AC inputs influence on the capacitor
    ... The voltage on a capacitor cannot change suddenly. ... >then the charge will run off one plate and run onto ... >room for more charge on the plates, ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Vacuum - The Final Frontier
    ... >that when you have two parallel plates forming a capacitor with a dielectric ... the plates will be left with no charge. ... >The plates are simply electrodes that enable full contact with the dielectric ... >dielectric since the vacuum cannot be grasped). ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: skin depth decay
    ... An early demonstration of electroostatic repulsion was via an instrument ... proportional to charge. ... you may have produced a capacitor useful ... just wait till he tries to tell you that the plates have to be diamagnetic ...
    (rec.radio.amateur.antenna)
  • Re: Particle Visualization
    ... >> First of all I have not said there is charge flow in between the plates ... >> capacitor I have said there is charge movement. ... >You're going to have to quantitatively define "partial separation" and ...
    (sci.physics.particle)